Total electrical failure.

[David McG]

Hi everyone. Since buying my Stelvio a couple of years ago this forum has been a great source of information for a couple of problems I've had with the bike. However, I have a new problem about which I don't see much in my searches. When the ignition switch is turned on nothing lights up and no electrical components function. All of the fuses, the battery leads and the main earth have been checked and are sound. The battery is fully charged. When the ignition switch is in the off position there is power to 5 of the leads in the ignition switch block connector and no power to one of the leads. The lead with no power is red/black on the switch side and orange/green on the loom side. Can you tell me if the power supply as described at the ignition switch connector is normal? Has anyone had a similar problem and what was the cure? Thanks in advance for any suggestions or observations.

 

[canuck1969]

When you say you have checked all the fuses, did you check the 30 and 20 amp ones on the side of the bike. This sounds like a blown main fuse somewhere. What fuses did you check. Take a count and we can let you know if you missed one. Start easy, then we can get more complicated.

Also check the main ground to the chassis behind the starter. Just follow the main ground wire from battery.

Lastly, is the kill switch on? Try starting the bike, does anything happen.

 

[canuck1969]

Just had another thought. Under the seat there will be a 9 pin connector that is not attached to anything. It will have a jumper wire on it. Is that jumper secure. It is the hookup for an alarm. If the jumper is not present, or loose, you may get what you are describing.

 

[David McG]

Hi Canuck, thanks for your reply. I have left the bike with the mechanic who rollerised it for me last year. He has had a quick look so far and says the things you mentioned check out fine. The main thing he is concerned about at the moment is that there should only be power to three wires at the ignition switch in the off position but there is actually power to five wires. He is going to work back from there to try and locate the problem. I'll let you know when he finds something. In the meantime I continue to welcome any ideas. Thanks.

 

[canuck1969]

Power to 5 wires with the key off??? Sorry, I first read that as with the key on.

That would mean that the rear lights, licence plate and parking lights would be on all the time without a key. Is that what is happening otherwise something does not make sense in their trouble shooting. Are they getting power, or closed circuit to ground on all 5.

The Red/Black and Orange/Green (R/N and Ar/V) is the main power to the all the electrics for the bike. It feeds the maintenance relay and then power from there powers the rest of the bike (except for parking, license and rear lights). As they have found, it should not have power when the key is off. That is normal.

The power for that wire comes from the White/Yellow and Red White wire (Bi/G and R/Bi) which has constant power from the battery through the infamous 30 amp fuse.

If the Red/Black is not getting power when the key is turned to the run position, I would say that the switch itself is the issue. If they jump the Bi/G and R/N wires when the key is on it should fire up regardless of what is happening with the rest of the switch.

If the R/N wire is getting power with the key on, then look at the maintenance relay as the issue because that should satisfy the circuit.. It may be stuck. They should have power to ground on the #3 pin on the relay with the key on. If they do, get a new relay. If they don't, get a new switch.

If you are truly getting power to the 1st 5 wires (left to right) with the power off, then I would pull the switch, but like I said, for that to happen, all the parking and licence plate lights would be illuminated all the time. There is no other way that could not happen.

Also, there should only be two wires with power when the key is off, not three as they have stated. Only the Bi/R and Bi/G wires on the switch should have power, the others should be dead.

Are they working from an actual wiring diagram??

 

[scottmastrocinque]

I have a suggestion.

First, a discussion on how your transponder key works...

"Once a key is inserted into the ignition lock and turned to one of the 'on' or 'run' positions, the induction coil that is mounted around the ignition lock sends out an electromagnetic field of energy. The windings in the transponder chip absorb that energy and power the electronic chip to emit a signal. The signal is usually an alphanumeric sequence which is considered the identification code. The induction coil reads the signal and sends it to some type of computer device to recognize the signal. If the signal is recognized as being already in the computer’s memory, the signal is accepted and other electronic components in the vehicle are set into motion to allow the starting of the vehicle or the continuation of the engine running. - Wikipedia"

I think you have a problem in one of three things. First, your key. Is this the same key you have always used? If not, are you aware that the keys contain a microchip that has to be programmed to the Immobilizer on the bike? If the bike cannot "see" that key, then it will be dead as a doornail, just like you describe. If this is the same key you have always used, make sure to try it by itself, with no other keys on the ring - sometimes multiple code keys can interfere with each other being read correctly. If this does not work, then as a last ditch effort, try one of your other bike keys.

If none of that worked...

The next culprit is the dashboard. If I am understanding you correctly, when you turn the key, nothing is displaying on the dashboard. If this is the case, you have a dead dashboard which in turn is a dead immobilizer, which in turn is a dead motorcycle. Please clarify if you have anything visible on the dash at all. If you do have something, then we can work with the menu and examine the codes.

But, if this did nothing either...

If the dash is working ok, then your third suspect in the ignition lock itself as if the induction coil is not emitting energy, they the key will not function and again, the immobilizer kills everything dead as a doornail.

 

[canuck1969]

Valid points Scott.

If the immobilizer or key is dead, then he should at least see the dash light up with an immobilizer fault. It is a separate circuit from the ignition switch and would still allow lights on the bike and the dash to fire up. (come to think of it, that may be the third wire that the dealer said should have power when the key is off)

Now it is possible the power to the dash is gone. That is something to take a look at. That would cause the problem, however the bigger mystery is the power at the switch when the bike is off to 5 wires (if that is truly happening). That is either a faulty switch, or major short in the line somewhere that is causing that. Jumping the wires at the switch with the key in and in the on position will quickly determine that.

Hopefully the dealer provides more details.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Joe, as always your diagnostic logic is awesome, but in this circumstance, I have got to defaut to parsimony.

To me, the 5 powered wires is misinformation because for that to occur, it would require such a freak occurrence as to be so highly unlikely, not to mention that the information is coming to us, once removed from the source.

I really think we have a dead dashboard here. That is my first best simplest estimation. It explains all circumstances in the simplest event.

IMHO. YMMV.

I'll be silent now. Carry on gentlemen. Good Luck.

 

[canuck1969]

I agree, if the 5 wire issue is truly not the case (and I do believe it to not be the case), then the next likely cause is the dash, assuming there is power to the red/black wire when the key is on. If there is, then either the dash or the maintenance relay, if there is not, ignition switch.

Game on....

 

[WayneOrwig]

Hi Canuck, thanks for your reply. I have left the bike with the mechanic who rollerised it for me last year. He has had a quick look so far and says the things you mentioned check out fine. The main thing he is concerned about at the moment is that there should only be power to three wires at the ignition switch in the off position but there is actually power to five wires. He is going to work back from there to try and locate the problem. I'll let you know when he finds something. In the meantime I continue to welcome any ideas. Thanks.

Might be a ground issue, so it looks like more things are 'hot' because the ground has failed and is no longer pulling things to ground.

 

[canuck1969]

Thought the same thing Wayne but he said they checked all the grounds. The switch itself has no ground wire. Will be an interesting one when they figure it out.

 

[David McG]

Sorted!
In my relief I had to have a good laugh at this one. It turns out the terminal of the earth lead had never been crimped to the cable in the factory. The only thing holding it together was the shrink wrap. How it managed to hold together well enough to make a sufficient earth since the bike was built in 2011 is anyone's guess. Maybe it would be worth having a look under the earth cable shrink wrap on your own bike in case the same person built it as built mine. Anyway, it has now been crimped and the bike is back to normal.
Many thanks to everyone for all your knowledgeable help.