End play in pinion shaft V65 SP 1984

[Julian Sudano]

Hi All,

I pulled the drive box off my bike today as I thought it was probably long overdue some grease on the drive shaft splines and to replace the 41 year old cush blocks. When I bought the bike 3 years ago it was obvious that jobs like this that were beyond the previous owner's remit, and therefore ignored.

I discovered that there is about 1mm of end play (is this the correct expression) in the pinon shaft, which I believe is not such a good thing, according to a few YouTube videos I have watched. Unfortunately I can't upload a video clip but when I pull the splined end of the pinion shaft, it will move in and out slightly. There is some kind of tension that pulls it back into the case.

Is this an acceptable amount of play or does it need to be re-shimmed? My bike suffers from a lot of whine, especially in a "power off" situation during acceleration so I'm wondering if this is the culprit...

Thanks for any input!

Julian Sudano
Los Angeles

 

[john zibell]

There should be no end play. I suggest you contact Todd's shop using the Service tab as shimming a gearbox is best performed by trained professionals.

 

[Julian Sudano]

There should be no end play. I suggest you contact Todd's shop using the Service tab as shimming a gearbox is best performed by trained professionals.

Thanks John - appreciate your input. Any idea on why this happens? I've drained the oil and there is not swarf at all.

 

[V700Steve]

Wear, wrong oil grade, shimmed marginal from factory. Not a bad job if you have the shims & equipment to do the job..
You can check backlash & tooth contact point with some blueing paste and a puller to load ring gear onto cover.
If you are close to Todd, go there. Did my 1st one in 84 when i stripped splines on my LM3. Last smallblock was in mid 90's.

Read workshop manual in downloads. There was also an update at some point to drill a hole in housing to supply more oil to pinion bearings.

I would contact Todd.

 

[Adamigo]

If you want to take a look how such job looks like. And I am not convincing you I did it right. Just did it, and I enjoy the ride. Shims are widely available on eBay, and yes, you need some specific tools...

Mały blok - Jak nie spieprzyć dyfra

32 new items · Album by Adam Pawlikowski

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Julian Sudano]

Wear, wrong oil grade, shimmed marginal from factory. Not a bad job if you have the shims & equipment to do the job..
You can check backlash & tooth contact point with some blueing paste and a puller to load ring gear onto cover.
If you are close to Todd, go there. Did my 1st one in 84 when i stripped splines on my LM3. Last smallblock was in mid 90's.

Read workshop manual in downloads. There was also an update at some point to drill a hole in housing to supply more oil to pinion bearings.

I would contact Todd.

Unfortunately GuzziTech aren't interested in this "small job" right now, so I proceeded and pulled the pinon cluster apart to take a look! Two things were apparent:
1) the collar nut which is staked at the notch on the pinion shaft had not been staked terribly well, and I could rotate it slightly with my fingers, while holding the shaft in my other hand.
2) there is some nasty pitting on the concave side base, of each tooth of the pinion gear. See pic.

Would this contribute to noise from the unit, and is it junk at this stage?

I haven't looked at the crown wheel assembly yet....so will be very curious to see what state those teeth are in!

 

[Julian Sudano]

If you want to take a look how such job looks like. And I am not convincing you I did it right. Just did it, and I enjoy the ride. Shims are widely available on eBay, and yes, you need some specific tools...

Mały blok - Jak nie spieprzyć dyfra

32 new items · Album by Adam Pawlikowski

photos.app.goo.gl

Thanks - this is excellent. Appreciated mate!

 

[Julian Sudano]

Was it incredibly difficult removing the outer races of both conical bearings, from the pinion shaft housing? And how was it putting new ones back in, if you did?

 

[V700Steve]

If you warm up the housing the outer race knocks out w/a punch from other end. I seen worse gears, you can't change one. They are matched. Don't buy cheap bearings.

 

[Julian Sudano]

If you warm up the housing the outer race knocks out w/a punch from other end. I seen worse gears, you can't change one. They are matched. Don't buy cheap bearings.

Wear, wrong oil grade, shimmed marginal from factory. Not a bad job if you have the shims & equipment to do the job..
You can check backlash & tooth contact point with some blueing paste and a puller to load ring gear onto cover.
If you are close to Todd, go there. Did my 1st one in 84 when i stripped splines on my LM3. Last smallblock was in mid 90's.

Read workshop manual in downloads. There was also an update at some point to drill a hole in housing to supply more oil to pinion bearings.

I would contact Todd.

So in place of a puller, could you just reassemble the entire unit, and test for tooth contact with bluing paste? I'm trying to figure out how the puller would work. Crown gear shows pretty minimal wear.

 

[V700Steve]

The reason for the puller is to create action that is like actual running. When spinning normally assembled on bike the crown moves out towards the cover. To create actual for contact patch on ring & pinion you need a puller to do so.
I had special arms made to fit in like factory tool. You also need to drill hole on an angle to feed more oil to tapered bearings as update was to be done.

 

[Julian Sudano]

OK - thanks for the information on the puller. I am trying to picture how that would all go together!
With regards to the extra hole, I'm assuming that it would need to go where I have marked the X in this picture? I'm beginning to wonder if it is slop/wear in the bearings as I have tightened the collar nut to the point where the bearings are beginning to bind and while it has reduced the end play ever so slightly, when I spin the pinion shaft that I get "shudder", and I still have discernable end float.

 

[V700Steve]

I would really have to search for placement of the hole. I used to have a sheet of paper w/bulletin on it from around 84 or 5 & don't know where it went. Got rid of lots of stuff w/moving. I know i had it before moving to GA. All warranties stuff was done on paper then.
I don't think is was on the x but in the center on an angle going in. You may find it here in archives somewhere.

 

[V700Steve]

Well, finally found info from a friend in IN. I was wrong, hole goes in box casting next to one of the 4 studs I really hate getting old & not remembering fixing stuff. I was ready to call one of my old customers w/custom Monza, last one I did. Never found my paper.

 

[Julian Sudano]

Hi Steve - just wanted to thank you for all your assistance with this issue - much appreciated. The post from Guzziology that was posted in another forum was what I needed. I even have a copy of that, but didn't think to consult it. Modification has been performed, so thanks again!!

As for the latest update, I am just waiting for the paper gaskets for the final drive so I can put everything back together and take her for a spin. The parts diagram shows the 2 shims, between the bearings on the pinion shaft: 1 x 0.1mm and 1 x 0.15mm. Mine had 3 in there - both of the above along with an extra 1.1mm shim!! I suspect one of the previous owners had put it in there to "shim out" the slop in the worn bearings. Having replaced the bearings, and put the appropriate shims in, there is NO end play, and the shaft spins freely and smoothly! I can't wait to get it back together and take her for a spin as I suspect that will cure most of the ever-present whining.

 

[V700Steve]

Thanks, I would still check contact patch.