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Harness almost "on fire"

D

der_Thomas

Just got it firing!
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
18
Location
Wolfsburg, Germany
Hey there,

my Bellagio was holding a new surprises for me.
There are two yellow wires leading from the generator to the regulator, both positive I think.
The connector between them is not looking very good.
The white housing of the connector seems to be brown inside.
First 5mm from the yellow cables comming out of the connector also aren't yellow anymore but nice brown and the surfaces of the wires feel hard like plastic.
To make it perfect, I can't disconnect the connector anymore.
I guess that the pins inside are nearly molten and I ask myself why.

In the manual guzzi says the generator brings it up to 350W.
That means nearly 30A in a 12V power supply but this shouldn't be a problem for two 2.5mm² cables, should it?
Or am I wrong and the generator gets its minus over one yellow wire and not about the frame?
Then I would understand the problem because 30A for one single 2.5mm² would be a little bit to much.

Does anybody here knows anything about this problem?

Greetings,
Thomas
 
It isn't a generator, it is an alternator. The two yellow wires carry AC voltage. That voltage can get to 80VAC and it is rectified and regulated to the max output of 350 watts at 12 volts. Do what you can to disconnect and clean connectors. Worst case will require replacement of the stator and/or regulator/rectifier as the wires are integral to these units.
 
This is a common concern in lots of different brands and is generally caused by poor connections at the plug. Get a reputable auto electrician to cut the plugs off and replace with something more up to the job. Then check the charging system works correctly. It is very unlikely a fault in the charging system will do this. Alternatly you could join the wires and solder them to check the charging but really need a plug fitted.
If the system was over charging your battery would be knackered or flat or some globes may have blown and this would have made it easier on the plugs in question\.
Cheers
 
Things are a bit deceiving:
Minor surface rusting or some slack on the connector pins could put there say just a quarter of an ohm of resistance.
Continuous 8Amps (for some normal 100W load) through 0.25 ohm means .... (drum roll) .... 16 watts on the connector! That's enough to slowly fry plastic things and cause cable insulation to become brittle over time... Also, there will be 2 volts of voltage drop across such a connection so 15 nice volts from the alternator are becoming 13 volts after the connector and along other drops in the way can make the electronics start to misbehave as loads come in and out particularly when the battery has passed its prime.

I know first hand as I had to disassemble half an Elefant 750 in hot weather 15 years ago before I discovered a semi melted fuse box slowly starving the electrics from generated power feed. One of the most beautiful aspects of European vehicle electrics that persists to modern times (...ok most european cars have gotten better nowadays).
 
Hello,

thanks for the answers.
Of course I ment the alternator, I just thought it would be "generator" in english too.
Tomorrow I will replace the connector by some crimp connectors with a shrinking hose over each.
Alternataor and regulator can't be changed then as easy as now but better an undetachable connection than a burning bike ;)
On wednesday night two friends and me want to go to norway for nine days with our bikes, so I better hurry up :silly:

Bye,
Thomas
 
Hello,

I just repaired the harness and I found out one interesting fact: The wires from the alternator up to the connector are 2.5mm² and from the connector to the regulator 4.0mm² :huh:.
The pins on the 2.5mm²-side got too warm.
It looked really bad, so I am glad that I repaired it before the trip to norway.
Here are some pictures of the connector and how I fixed it.

Brown cables and connector:


Connector part one


Connector part two:


Regulator with crimp connectors:


Connected wires:


Shrinked crimp connectors:


Finaly some electrical tape:


Greetings,
Thomas
 
Thats horrific, I would have thought that is about as bad as it gets without being a full blown fire. Thanks for the pics.
 
Hey there,

few days ago I contacted Guzzi/Piaggio and sent them some pictures of the charred connector.
Today an e-mail with arrived me. They already know this problem but the solution is just rubbish. Not everybody is bringing his bike regularly to an official Guzzi-dealer for maintainance... .
They better should use a reliable connector.
Well, OK, here is the english translation of the e-mail. The original message in german is added below.

Greetings,
Thomas

Dear Mr .Ruck,

thank you for your request.
Unfortunately the connector you are talking about can overheat under specific circumstances, when contact resistance is getting too high. To avoid this problem, the connector should be disconnected, cleaned and be treated with special dielectric maintenance products at a distance of 2 years. According to that, we sent a technical description to all our dealers in 2010, regarding the motorcycles with 750 ccm- engine (which have the same electric loading system and the same connector).
We regret any inconvenience caused and ask them to apologize. For further questions we are happy to help you.

Sincere Regards,

Piaggio Online Customer Service


Guten Tag Herr Ruck,
vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage.
Der von Ihnen genannte Stecker kann leider unter bestimmten Bedingungen überhitzen, wenn die Übergangswiderstände zu hoch werden. Um dies zu vermeiden sollte man diesen Stecker circa alle zwei Jahre trennen, reinigen und mit einem neutralen dielektrischem Pflegemittel behandeln.
Eine entsprechende technische Information wurde im Jahr 2010 an unsere Vertragshändler ausgegeben, allerdings die 750ccm Fahrzeuge betreffend (jedoch mit gleichem Ladesystem und gleichem Stecker).
Wir bedauern die Ihnen entstandenen Unannehmlichkeiten und bitten diese zu entschuldigen.
Für weitere Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Freundliche Grüße

Piaggio Online Kundendienst
Click to expand...
 
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