New V7 Stone. Questions on Mirrors/Stalling

[Kev M]

No, you're not really describing the same thing.

First, I'm bone stock.

Second, it only occurs completely cold. Never at a traffic light etc.

Third, there are literally no other symptoms. No stumbling or rough running.

It starts, hunts, and stalls INSTANTLY only when you put it in gear and try to engage clutch.

 

[bdcfe]

.

 

[Instg8r]

Maybe MG made it so you cant ride the bike until its warm...lol

My bike does it, but it really doesn't bother me...as I always warm my engines before I se them.

And when I say Warm them, I don't mean for like 15 mins or 10 secs.... 2-3 mins. It annoyed my wife until I used the illustration of women and foreplay :woohoo: . She now quietly respects the warm up ritual.

Matt

 

[Kev M]

There's a reason most vehicle manufacturers recommend minimal warm-uo times, like 30 seconds.

Excessive wam-up at idle does nothing beneficial for the motor.

The oil is circulating and pressure is fine by 30 seconds.

The fuel mixture is rich and blow-by is at it's worst (amounts, and contaminants). And this us is extra true on air-cooled bikes.

Warm up will occur faster under load, minimizing that impact.

And maybe more than anything, there's no excuse for an EFI system to act that way.

 

[GuzziMoto]

The stalling at start up seems to be a common, shared issue with V7's and other bikes. The first bike I had something like that with was a '93 Suzuki Bandit 400 (carbs). I have had it with other bikes, but they were all carb bikes. I would not expect that from an EFI bike. But as has been pointed out, the issue happens right after start and I would venture that the fact that the O2 sensor would not yet be up to temp, and thus the ECU would not yet be using the O2 sensor to adjust fueling, plays a part in it. Perhaps the base fueling is leaner than it used to be and it uses the O2 sensor to add fuel instead of starting with a richer mixture and using the o2 sensor to pull fuel out of it. So until the O2 sensor is hot enough to work it does not add the extra fuel. That would indicate that using an O2 signal modifier would likely not make a difference to this specific problem.
But the other issues a couple are reporting seem to be set up issues. If your V7 does not run right then it is likely it is not set up right. Putting a Fat Duc or other modifier on it is not fixing the problem but band-aiding the symptoms. You are better of fixing the issue first, then if you want to try the modifier give it a go after you have a proper baseline.

 

[sign216]

The V7 has a modern 4-wire oxygen sensor, with an internal heater so that it warms up faster than the engine, and a modification here can start enriching the fuel mixture quickly, within 20-30 seconds.

The lean factory map is designed for emission compliance, not the best performance. I've got no heartache in making my engine run better.

 

[GuzziMoto]

We know the V7 has a 4 wire sensor. I have yet to see a EFI Guzzi with an O2 sensor that is not 4 wire. But even a 4 wire sensor takes a minute or so to warm up, as opposed to 4 or 5 minutes (depending on how close it is to the head) of a non-heated sensor.
No one thinks adjusting the mapping is wrong, but if you are adjusting the mapping you need to adjust the right part of it. And if your bike does not run right to begin with that should be addressed before you start tweaking the mapping.

 

[PP-1753]

As much as they try, the factory does not always get every bike the same. Add into this mix you get local fuels, different standards of pre delivery, and riding styles.

As has been detailed above all of these give a unique combination that is same, similar, different to the next guy. This is a fact of life - especially with a Guzzi. What works for one person, may or may not work for the next. All I can say is that on this site we have the collective wisdom (OK take me out of the equation) of many people in many places and with a wide range of experience (from zero to full time job).

Some things work, some things don't - it's all a bit of a lucky dip in the end until someone comes up with a definitive solution that addresses the problem for all. On this path is the path of discovery for oneself, and this is important.

OK off the podium now, and back to lurking...

 

[Instg8r]

There's a reason most vehicle manufacturers recommend minimal warm-uo times, like 30 seconds.

Excessive wam-up at idle does nothing beneficial for the motor.

The oil is circulating and pressure is fine by 30 seconds.

The fuel mixture is rich and blow-by is at it's worst (amounts, and contaminants). And this us is extra true on air-cooled bikes.

Warm up will occur faster under load, minimizing that impact.

And maybe more than anything, there's no excuse for an EFI system to act that way.

good thing a aircooled bike heats up quickly when its not moving.

 

[Kev M]

There's a reason most vehicle manufacturers recommend minimal warm-uo times, like 30 seconds.

Excessive wam-up at idle does nothing beneficial for the motor.

The oil is circulating and pressure is fine by 30 seconds.

The fuel mixture is rich and blow-by is at it's worst (amounts, and contaminants). And this us is extra true on air-cooled bikes.

Warm up will occur faster under load, minimizing that impact.

And maybe more than anything, there's no excuse for an EFI system to act that way.

good thing a aircooled bike heats up quickly when its not moving.

AHHHH, but you are mistaken sir.

The simple fact of the matter is a water-cooled machine will always warm up quicker than an air-cooled machine.

The reason being simple, a little instrument called the Thermostat.

You see an air-cooled bike is designed to radiate and conduct heat away from itself CONSTANTLY. As such, even when sitting still it does a pretty darn good job of shedding heat. And the colder the ambient, the quicker it sheds said heat.

So a proper warm-up on an air-cooled bike can take as long as 20-30 minutes (depending upon ambient temps), even under load.

HOWEVER a water-cooled machine will not shed any appreciable heat from the moment it is started until the moment the thermostat opens. It can be started and, even in freezing weather, reach normal operating temperature in 5 minutes or less.

Now, here's the kicker, build tolerances are going to be looser in the air-cooled machine to help make up for greater amounts of expansion that will occur during those temperature swings. So during that warm-up period the air-cooled machine is going to pollute its oil much much much more, both by a factor of time and amount of contamination per minute or second of that time.

So the colder the ambient temperature, the even MORE important it is to get an air-cooled motor moving.

 

[Barenekd]

When I was given the keys for a test ride, I got on the bike, started the engine, put it in gear, started letting the clutch out, and it Died. I must've done that 4 or 5 times before it got warm enough to kinda get rolling, it a still wanting to quit. By the time I got down the road a mile or so, it finally reached a point where it would run. I figured that salesman would think I was a total idiot if I couldn't work a clutch any better that that. After I'd made a few stops then it was fine and I never had any more problems with it. When I got back to the shop the salesman still never said anything about it.
I realized it had to be just a quirk in the bike and ended up buying it. It was always pretty bad before I put the Zard's on it. It would usually take over 5 minutes or so before I could ride off on it if it was cold out (40-50 degrees). The Zards dropped it down to two or three minutes. If it's up around 70, it doesn't take long at all. I just start it first, then put on the gear. I hope my neighbors don't got too unhappy with my 6AM starts!
Bare

 

[Instg8r]

There's a reason most vehicle manufacturers recommend minimal warm-uo times, like 30 seconds.

Excessive wam-up at idle does nothing beneficial for the motor.

The oil is circulating and pressure is fine by 30 seconds.

The fuel mixture is rich and blow-by is at it's worst (amounts, and contaminants). And this us is extra true on air-cooled bikes.

Warm up will occur faster under load, minimizing that impact.

And maybe more than anything, there's no excuse for an EFI system to act that way.

good thing a aircooled bike heats up quickly when its not moving.

AHHHH, but you are mistaken sir.

The simple fact of the matter is a water-cooled machine will always warm up quicker than an air-cooled machine.

The reason being simple, a little instrument called the Thermostat.

You see an air-cooled bike is designed to radiate and conduct heat away from itself CONSTANTLY. As such, even when sitting still it does a pretty darn good job of shedding heat. And the colder the ambient, the quicker it sheds said heat.

So a proper warm-up on an air-cooled bike can take as long as 20-30 minutes (depending upon ambient temps), even under load.

HOWEVER a water-cooled machine will not shed any appreciable heat from the moment it is started until the moment the thermostat opens. It can be started and, even in freezing weather, reach normal operating temperature in 5 minutes or less.

Now, here's the kicker, build tolerances are going to be looser in the air-cooled machine to help make up for greater amounts of expansion that will occur during those temperature swings. So during that warm-up period the air-cooled machine is going to pollute its oil much much much more, both by a factor of time and amount of contamination per minute or second of that time.

So the colder the ambient temperature, the even MORE important it is to get an air-cooled motor moving.

Interesting, so then I ask you this... what is the proper cool down procedure? For example I'm going to ride my v7 at a intro to track riding school and possibly do some lapping days here and there with it for fun...sessions usually run 10-15 mins....there is usually a cool down lap, would that be enough to shut it off once I get of the track? or what if I have to pull into the pits while hot lapping....

Matt

 

[john zibell]

Matt, You don't need a cool down procedure. Only needed on engines that are turbo charged.

 

[Instg8r]

Yes definitely. I always thought it was good practice to idle any watercooled engine after its being run hard like at track after lapping to reduce the thermal stress on the metal, to allow the temps (water/oil/metals/air under the hood) to stabilize before shutting it off...

But I guess idling wouldn't help the aircooled aspect, but coming from watercooled world it takes different thinking to shut it off and leave it.


Matt

 

[Loftness]

Out of all the V7s we had delivered last year, there was just one that had this stalling issue (I don't have actual numbers in front of me sorry), and then that one seemed to fix itself and then I sold it.

If I get another in I'll try my best to figure out the cause. It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. But you guys with the 1TB versions, this is not the same thing. This is unique to the 2TB V7s.

 

[Kev M]

Yes definitely. I always thought it was good practice to idle any watercooled engine after its being run hard like at track after lapping to reduce the thermal stress on the metal, to allow the temps (water/oil/metals/air under the hood) to stabilize before shutting it off...

I don't think you are wrong at all.

Perhaps idling per se is not necessary, but running for a few minutes at a lower speed/load is always recommended after running at or near WOT for any length of time.

 

[Mrkitty2]

Kev, and those with stalling/spluttering issues, have you tried unplugging the Lambdas? I did, this morning, and the bike ran perfectly on a 25 mile jaunt. No Engine Warning light came on, and the bike was smooth as......

 

[Mrkitty2]

And I just got back from an 89 mile trip. Again, no stuttering/spluttering/stalling. And no MIL either. Had to push the start button twice to get her started, that's all. I'm just sayin'.

 

[Moto Fugazzi]

Re the stalling... I put O2 modifiers on my 1TB V7R. Stops the stalling, doesn't cure the occasional hesitation/spluttering at small throttle openings below 4/4500rpm, if I give the grip a twist, seems to clear its throat. Sometimes a whole ride (100 miles) goes by with no problem. So what's that about? TPS? Anyone else suffering this? It's a '13 V7R that's had ECU/TB replaced, and new Lambdas. 4600 miles, drinks 97 only...

SERIOUSLY? You had the cold start problem where you just literally CANNOT ride away until a minute or two has passed and now you can cold start and pull away without it dying?

INTERESTING - especially since I don't have an occasional hesitation/spluttering at small throttle openings.

But I'm willing to try... all I need is a second Fat Duc...

I have a Fat Duc if you're willing to try. I'll send it to you at no charge to try it out, but I'll need it back unless you want to purchase it. I'll pm you for details.
Ken

 

[370_racer]

And I just got back from an 89 mile trip. Again, no stuttering/spluttering/stalling. And no MIL either. Had to push the start button twice to get her started, that's all. I'm just sayin'.

There was a guy who posted last year that he too disconnected both lambdas and had no issues. In fact he claimed the bike ran much better, he had better mileage and his plugs looked much better...I'll try to find his post. I keep saying this, but I need to put my wideband O2 logger on it and see what it does.

I sometimes have the stalling issue, sometimes don't...but I don't have too many miles under my belt on this bike - got it towards the end of last season and been sitting whole winter.