Another stinkin' oil thread

[roadventure]

Today I changed the engine oil in my California 1400 again. I went out and rode for 15 miles per the MG oil change instructions. I then stood the bike upright (vertical) drained the oil via the drain plug and removed the oil filter. Again, I got a little over 2 liters drained out (2.1L to be exact). I replaced the drain plug with a new crush washer and put the new oil filter in place. I then refilled the engine with 3L of 10-60W Motul oil.

So, now, for those of you who like to gamble. What do you think are the chances that I experience an overfilled situation again? That is, oil draining out of the drain tube attached to the airbox.

I say about 100%, since the first time I changed the oil I followed the same procedure, except for refilling with only 2L. I experienced about 8 oz of oil draining from the airbox after riding again.

Soon after he third oil change, performed by a MG dealer, I also had about 8 oz of oil draining from the airbox hose on the same day that the oil change was performed. And then another 4-6 oz drain from the airbox hose later the same day.

In my experience the correct oil level for the California 1400 engine seems elusive. It should be simple, but is not. Am I missing something?

 

[scott_m]

I don't have a 1400 but I found a Service Manual online and read it. I have a couple of questions. so here goes...

1. Are you replacing the filter each time and draining from that location as well? If not, there is your overflow quantity of oil that is not draining out of the engine. Also, although you need to be very careful about not leaving any of the stupid foil seal on a bottle of oil or allowing any to fall into the new bottle, but do you pre-fill your oil filter full of oil before fitting it into the bike (this oil will initially bypass the filter so it is imperative that nothing is in the oil - absolutely no paper or foil or anything solid of any kind - I actually pour it through a screen into the filter)? You will be amazed at how much oil actually can fit inside of that filter. That excess quantity of oil in the crankcase upon startup may be enough to be kicked up into your vert perhaps?

2. From a previous post https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/engine-oil-check.16592/#post-123746

In this post, it sates that the difference between level marks is 700 ml, so why would you try and pour all 3 liters in at once. why not 2.3, ride for half an hour, recheck level and add if needed? That would avoid overfilling for sure wouldn't it?

 

[abbienormal]

As per what Scott said on my Guzzi's I underfill a little bit. I do fill the filter first (no foil or paper on the Amsoil or the Agip oil bottles I have used) then add less than called for and start the bike up for a minute or so to circulate it then I let it sit for a few minutes. I then fill to about half way on the dipstick. After a ride I check it again the next morning to see if still in the middle of the dipstick. My 1400 never did have any real amount of oil in air box. When the bike was new I checked the oil after it sat overnight and judged off that for my oil level so I did not have to do the run it, let it sit, rub your stomach while you hold your tongue just right oil check. Seems half way between the marks on the stick seems to work fine. Somewhere in my records I have the total amount added written down for reference each time.

 

[Bill Hagan]

Ditto to what Scott & Rudy said.

Naturally, I cannot resist adding -- NPI! -- to the discussion.

My own experience may be in the YMMV and inapplicable to the C14, but I'll mention it anyway.

I accidentally discovered (in the course of removing my Norge's forks and a simultaneous oil change) that my oil cooler did not drain -- or at least not fully so -- when I emptied the crankcase via the sump's drain plug.

I got very close to a .5 liter of obviously "old" oil from it.

Anomaly? Mebbe? But it's easy enough to pull one of the cooler's lines, so I now do that.

Now, off to my brother's house to swap out his OEM for adjustable pegs. Michael's a good guy who rides the wheels off his 8v Norge ... but continues to view checking his tires' air pressure as major maintenance!

Bill

 

[roadventure]

1. Are you replacing the filter each time and draining from that location as well?
2. From a previous post https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/engine-oil-check.16592/#post-123746

In this post, it sates that the difference between level marks is 700 ml, so why would you try and pour all 3 liters in at once. why not 2.3, ride for half an hour, recheck level and add if needed? That would avoid overfilling for sure wouldn't it?

1. Yes, I have always replaced the oil filter every time I change oil on any vehicle. Yes, oil was drained from the drain plug and, oil also drained from the oil filter location. I gave it about ten minutes to drip, drip it all out.
2. I have not in the past poured 3 liters in at once. I poured in 2 liters in as that is the amount that drained out.

As stated, oil level seems to be a very strange thing on this bike. It should be a simple, straight-forward kind of thing but I have yet to get it figured out. We shall see how this fill turns out.

 

[scott_m]

The only other thing I can think of is that perhaps your garage floor is slanted towards the front of the bike, and some of the oil is maybe trapped in the front half of the oil pan.

There is a physical explanation for what is happening because it is illogical to presume that somehow the carrying capacity of your motorcycles crankcase and oil pan, somehow magically keeps changing.

 

[kiwi dave]

It might be far fetched, but there may be some sort of passage for the oil to enter the gearbox void. Can't think how, but it wouldn't hurt to keep an eye on the gearbox oil level too.

 

[roadventure]

The only other thing I can think of is that perhaps your garage floor is slanted towards the front of the bike, and some of the oil is maybe trapped in the front half of the oil pan.

There is a physical explanation for what is happening because it is illogical to presume that somehow the carrying capacity of your motorcycles crankcase and oil pan, somehow magically keeps changing.

Nope, garage floor has the same very slight pitch that most do but nowhere near enough to effect draining of oil.

The carrying capacity is constant, I am sure. However, what I am having trouble with is the puking of oil (indicating overfill?) from the airbox drain soon after an oil change.

 

[roadventure]

It might be far fetched, but there may be some sort of passage for the oil to enter the gearbox void. Can't think how, but it wouldn't hurt to keep an eye on the gearbox oil level too.

Interesting comment. The guy at Harper's MG who repaired my exhaust crossover last summer noted that the gearbox was overfilled. I asked about what he thought the source of oil on the back side of the engine could be. He let enough oil drain off from the gearbox fill plug so that the level was at the fill plug as it should be. Previous to that I had not added/changed/checked the gearbox oil level. I'll need to check that after the next time out riding about.