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Breva V1100 fork oil change

Discussion in 'BNS12 Chat & Tech' started by GrahamNZ, May 11, 2009.

  1. NPS

    NPS Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    When removing the top covers to the fork tubes the springs are just underneith and under very slight tension. That makes me wonder if the springs are different or the spacer has been placed at the other end if that is possible.

    And yes I did chance the oil by pumping it out and refilling. Is there anything that is particularly incorrect in that. After all one doesn't take the engine apart to change the engine oil? I'm still learning at my age so fire away.
     
  2. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    You get less of the old oil out, thus less of the particulates. Also could lead to over fill when you put in new oil.
     
  3. GrahamNZ

    GrahamNZ High Miler

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    Most modern forks don't have drain plugs like they once did and removing the fork legs und upending/pumping/flushing them is the way to do the job. My original post here spells out the procedure.
     
  4. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    Fortunately one doesn't have to replace the fork oil quite so often. A couple of times in the lifetime of the bike is not quite the same as every 5k miles.
     
  5. GrahamNZ

    GrahamNZ High Miler

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    Note
    You can't remove a fork leg top plug without removing the handlebar away from the leg top because the plug comes up under a recess in the underside of the 'bar riser casting. Worth noting for anyone wanting to change the fork oil using the wrong method!
     
  6. NPS

    NPS Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    This weekend I changed fork oil in both tubes using the correct method. Bike done 21k miles. I last did this at 10k miles.
    I used 450cc of 5w oil. I drained out 380cc and close enough to 400cc in the other. The difference is a small leak through not changing the copper washer on the bolt at the bottom of the leg that pulls the damper down. Whenever I have removed the front tyre I new something was not right.

    Yet to try it yet. On close inspection I have many corrosions pits in the Chrome. Not what I expected. Obviously got some poor quality Chrome batch or perhaps all Guzzis are like this. Mind you I have used the bike almost daily through the year before last winter. Should be better than this though.:(
    :cry:
     
  7. GrahamNZ

    GrahamNZ High Miler

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    NPS

    Good that you've changed the oil OK, but why had the bottom screw been undone that holds the damper rod in place? That screw isn't a drain plug.
     
  8. NPS

    NPS Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    It makes a very good drain plug actually, especially if you want to try different viscosities or change the oil more frequently without having to dismantle the whole fork.
     
  9. GrahamNZ

    GrahamNZ High Miler

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    NPS

    One of us is wrong!

    Have you heard the saying, "Lazy men take most trouble"?
     
  10. NPS

    NPS Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Or both of us could be right!
     
  11. GrahamNZ

    GrahamNZ High Miler

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    NPS

    The problem with using those bottom screws as drain plugs is that you can't be sure that all the old oil and wear particles are being drained out, nor can you be sure that any flushing agent used will be completely removed.

    Since Guzzi give only the oil volume (rather than the oil level measurement method, which is far better) any oil residue adds to what you then add.

    You may be right with what you're doing but I'll stick to the recommended method for forks not provided with drain plugs by the manufacturer. Anyway, with the front axle (and wheel presumably) out to access the screws, you're more than half way there to remove the fork legs and do the job properly.

    Pete Roper is recommending a member remove the cylinder head to retrieve a piece of broken pencil which got in there while TDC for a tappet adjustment was being checked. I wonder if he'd recommend removing the fork legs and doing the job properly or following your lead?
     
  12. NPS

    NPS Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I will do what you advise on a regular service. If I want to change the oil for any other reason I will remove the wheel and the lower screws to drain the oil. This is a silly argument.
     
  13. GrahamNZ

    GrahamNZ High Miler

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    NPS

    Each to his own.

    As the Breva's forks are very crude damper-rod type, mucking about with the oil viscosity isn't going to make much difference, hence Guzzi specifying 5W to 20W. Oil volume will help reduce bottoming under extremely hard braking though. The problem with the damping is that it's simply very old technology and incapable of coping with impact from sharp-edged bumps. Cartridge emulators coupled with opening the bottom damping holes is reckoned to be the way to go. Single rate springs too of course.
     
  14. Wistrick

    Wistrick Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Reading though this thread I was thinking about the fact that no one brought up the point that different oil manufactures weight rating are not the same.

    Each manufacturer seems to be on a different scale. For example Maxima RSF 7wt is actually lighter than Spectro 5wt and Silkolene Pro RSF 7.5wt is actually heavier than Showa SS-8 10wt. This is not a judgment about the quality of these oils, just that the 'weight' label leads to a lot of trouble when trying to tune with suspension oils.

    More info and a use full chart can be found here....http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm

    the fork oil chart is down by the bottom

    Dan
     
  15. KerryBlue

    KerryBlue Just got it firing!

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    This may be a silly question, but here goes-
    My 1100 Breva is two years old with 20,000km
    It handles beautifully on good surfaces, but on rougher surfaces [most of the roads around here],I get quite a bit of juddering through the bars which can be a bit unnerving on corners.
    My question is - will changing the fork oil help? [ I'm fairly sure it has never been changed]. What oil should I go for to give me a smoother ride on poor surfaces. I've read through this thread a couple of times but am none the wiser - my fault I admit - I'm not very technically minded.
    Also, I'm confused about the adjustment of the fork damping. I've screwed the things fully clockwise, then fully anti-clockwise without noticing any difference to the way the bike handles.

    Would be grateful for any suggestions.

    Tom. :?
     
  16. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Tom

    Yes, change the fork oil. Try 15 weight.

    From Graham's 1100 notes (which I can't seem to find on the web these days) All you have at the front is preload adjustment. That said, turn the fork preload (clockwise) in fully. Then back out (ccw) 7 turns (1 turn = 360 degrees of rotation). I'm about 195 pounds and decided to only turn out 6.

    For the rear, back off preload completely, then turn in 35 clicks. For the damping, adjust to maximum, then back off 11 clicks. I used these settings and it transformed my Breva.
     
  17. KerryBlue

    KerryBlue Just got it firing!

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    Thanks for that John.

    I'll do the oil change over the next couple of weeks and let you know how I get on.

    The back suspension is fine. I have it adjusted more or less as you described - I actually read the manual!

    Tom.
     
  18. iainw

    iainw Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I'm planning the oil change in the coming weeks, waiting for some bad weather and a spot of boredom to set in.

    I need to collect a few bits and bobs first though, can anyone tell me what size socket I need for the top bugs? Graham the OP author says it's 28mm, but later it's mentioned that it's a 27mm, one is a typo and I don't want to find I've bought the wrong size. Also the service manual says to tighten this to the specified torque but it's not mentioned in the torque listings for front forks, anyone know what it is?

    Thanks in anticipation.
     
  19. Peacekeeper

    Peacekeeper Just got it firing!

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    If the chart is accurate (it's looks impressive.....) then my question for all of the folks here is - what specific brand of 15W fork oil is preferred? What have you gotten good results with?
     
  20. montelatici

    montelatici Just got it firing!

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    Unless your fork seals are leaking, changing fork oil is frankly, unnecessary. Sorry, but this comes from over 40 years of owning road and racing motorcycles.
     

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