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Cali Stone - a couple of oil questions

Yellowheader

Yellowheader

Just got it firing!
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I've had my '04 Stone for about 3 months now, and I've observed a couple of things that I'd like opinions on. First, my engine seems to like the oil level to be just above the lower line on the dipstick. If I add any oil above that level, it just seems to come out the blow-by hose and I end up back with the same amount. Is this normal for a big block?
My other question is about the oil itself. Last week I did an oil and filter change just before a 1000-mile trip. I used Castrol conventional 10W40 for motorcycles. The bike ran fine on the trip, but the morning after I got home there was an oil spot on the garage floor, apparently from the blow-by hose again. The curious thing was, the oil spot was frothy. Should I take that as a sign that I'm using the wrong kind of oil? If I change to synthetic, is it OK to use the filter that has already had dino-oil in it? Thanks for any advice you might have.
 
Yellowheader said:
I've had my '04 Stone for about 3 months now, and I've observed a couple of things that I'd like opinions on. First, my engine seems to like the oil level to be just above the lower line on the dipstick. If I add any oil above that level, it just seems to come out the blow-by hose and I end up back with the same amount. Is this normal for a big block?
Click to expand...

Yes that is normal. The engine will seek its own level/


Yellowheader said:
My other question is about the oil itself. Last week I did an oil and filter change just before a 1000-mile trip. I used Castrol conventional 10W40 for motorcycles. The bike ran fine on the trip, but the morning after I got home there was an oil spot on the garage floor, apparently from the blow-by hose again. The curious thing was, the oil spot was frothy. Should I take that as a sign that I'm using the wrong kind of oil? If I change to synthetic, is it OK to use the filter that has already had dino-oil in it? Thanks for any advice you might have.
Click to expand...

You will be better off withe a 15 or 20W50 in your engine. Better if it is synthetic. You should change the filter if you change to synthetic, but most oils are pretty tolerant these days if you don't.
 
Whoa there.... an 04? The hydraulic lifter engine? You NEED 5w-40. NOT 10w or 20w or you run the risk of lack of oil on cold start ups.
 
Mr Revhead said:
Whoa there.... an 04? The hydraulic lifter engine? You NEED 5w-40. NOT 10w or 20w or you run the risk of lack of oil on cold start ups.
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not so, the lifters have a check valve and hold oil. I ran a hydro valve engine without the mod on 15W50. The engine had no issues. The mod was done after I sold it. Also I talked with the dealer that did the modification and the bike showed no issues when the mod was done. When I talked with the importer at the time, the bikes that had issues ran the recommended 5w40. Bikes that ran 15 or 20W 50 had no issues.
 
I went with 10W40 rather than the 20W50 recommended in the owners manual because a) it's much easier to find, and b) this chart in the Guzzi workshop manual suggests it's better suited to my temperature range.
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I've done several starts at around freezing the last couple of weeks and it seems to be OK, hopefully no damage done. Just a couple of weeks of riding left this year, and I'll put some synthetic in for spring. Thanks both of you for your comments.
 
Here is the thing, you shouldn't be riding at below zero C temps anyway. The tires won't stick to pavement very well.
 
One thing to remember, you shouldn't be riding at zero C or less anyway. Tires won't stick as well. still the 15W50 should serve you well, but it is your choice. Every other bike of that engine design with solid lifters has used the 50 weight. It works well in the hydro motor as well. Do note that the recommended oil now is a 10W60 for the new machines.
 
Tire performance does diminish around the freezing point, but not enough to leave the bike at home IMO. You just have to adjust your riding style, just as you do on wet or sandy roads: gentle cornering and acceleration, allow larger following distances, etc. I do draw the line at ice and snow though. The 10W seemed like a good idea because I will ride as low as -5, but my riding at these temperatures is restricted to in-town commuting, so the total miles are pretty few. I'll see what oil I can find over the winter and try something new in the spring.
 
Yellowheader said:
Tire performance does diminish around the freezing point, but not enough to leave the bike at home IMO. You just have to adjust your riding style, just as you do on wet or sandy roads: gentle cornering and acceleration, allow larger following distances, etc. I do draw the line at ice and snow though. The 10W seemed like a good idea because I will ride as low as -5, but my riding at these temperatures is restricted to in-town commuting, so the total miles are pretty few. I'll see what oil I can find over the winter and try something new in the spring.
Click to expand...

From my research and a tire seminar I attended the glass point of a motorcycle tire is about 27 degrees F, -3C. At the glass point, you don't have much available traction (if any) not counting ice or snow. It all depends on how much risk you are willing to accept, and how fast you heal.
 
I'm not going to claim to know all there is... But that goes against every scrap of information and advice I have ever seen, read and heard from Moto Guzzi and many owners.
 
Mr Revhead said:
I'm not going to claim to know all there is... But that goes against every scrap of information and advice I have ever seen, read and heard from Moto Guzzi and many owners.
Click to expand...


If this is in reference to the oil question. My information came from the Service rep at Moto Guzzi North America at the time the hydro motors were released. Sometimes the engineers get it wrong which is why you have technical writers to write repair procedures and mechanics to repair equipment. You may find that is is not uncommon for manufactures not to admit they made an error.
 
I have ridden motorcycles plenty in below freezing temps(when I was younger and dumber). Part of it depends on the tire itself, some tires do not like freezing temps at all and others have less of an issue with them. You can't really say all tires have the same temp limit. Beyond that, you just have to ride appropriately and responsibly.
That said, I would run a 15/50 over a 10/40. Or even a 20/50 if it was a quality synthetic.
 
How does the viscosity of the oil have anything to do with its ability to burn off moisture?
Short hops can lead to mayo, and a lighter oil may work fine in colder temps, but moisture build up is mainly about oil temp (or lack there of) and not really about viscosity.
 
By a fraction, maybe......
If at all. I can't see that making a measurable difference.
 
Hi Yellowheader,
I lived in Edmonton in the early '80s. Is it safe to assume your season is over?
My '01 Jackal has been with me for 10 years now, and always ridden through the winter here on the coast. The formation of "mayonnaise" is an interesting issue, and I am working up to a post about my findings in the future.
Lets assume our bikes are set up the same. The only overboard vent goes from the top of the frame back bone just behind the steering head, back to the air box. The back bone acts as a breather box, trying to separate oil from air and condensation. When you park on your sidestand, there is a small hose exiting the left side of bottom of the the airbox. If you get oil foam on the ground it comes out of here. That means there is a bit of oil and sludge in your airbox, at the bottom, no big deal.
However, if your rocker box covers are full of it, it means your breather box is full. It sits higher than the rocker box covers, so down hill it goes back into your engine. This stuff is nasty! When I purged my system, I had enough to put in a tin can and boil it on a camp stove. It never changed. There is molecular science going on here beyond my comprehension. I could not boil the water out of it. So it builds up over time.
To purge it, after cleaning out your rocker boxes, pull the breather hoses off the barbs on the rocker boxes (hose clamps). On the side stand is good. Then blow compressed air into the right side, and catch what comes out on the left. Let it sit for a while and do it again.
I have gone beyond that since early October, and am collecting what comes out, after every ride.
It seems now, after a good purge in October, I get 75% water, 20% Mayo, and 5% oil.
Normally Mobil 1 15W50, but tried automotive 10W40 one winter with no difference in sludge build up, but that was before I started this experiment, so I was probably "fully loaded" (15 years/100K km).
In a glass jar, the water settles at the bottom, the sludge over the water, and the oil on top.
No idea where the water goes, as very little can exit the system. Maybe water vapor, returning to condensation when cooling down.

Edmonton....my Ducati friend would get up at 5 am and run up and down Groat road before the cops were out of bed!
 
Wow Norm, you've really been studying up on this. Sounds like the Mayo can show up with any oil. I only saw it once, coming out of the air box hose, so I guess it's nothing to be too worried about. Is there a sign there's Mayo in the rocker boxes, or do you have to remove them to see?
Yep, riding season's done here, although I was riding into the middle of November this year, so can't complain. Groat road at 5 am, eh? Sounds like something to try next summer!
 
You have to pop the rocker covers off. The stuff is slow moving, and it seems most of it will stay in that area. Because it is an emulsion of oil and water, it is heavier than the oil, and I have found some at the bottom of the sump when changing the oil filter. The oil is drawn to the pump above the bottom, but the thought of what could happen if you had a whole lot down there is un-pleasant.
Fortunately the sump comes off for a filter change, so a good chance to take a look, and clean it out.
I guess you don't have reason to open the rocker boxes with your hydraulic lifters. If you do, the gaskets are re-usable if you get them off without breaking. A thin film of grease will keep them from sticking and breaking. They seem to last "forever".
Have fun.
 
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