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California 1100 yawing problem

AndyOyamadaZ said:
... not enough mileage to worry about the bearings... ...

maybe so but I'd still check the steering head for tightness and grease em up... some bikes are cobbled together on Fridays...
 
AndyOyamadaZ said:
GuzziHero said:
i have Hagon rear shocks if that helps at all, though I suspect the top mount rubbers are shot.

Should I harden the suspension to prevent the weaving?

Hi GuzziHero, Yes please see how it works. But don't get an accident by speeding! It will be a good news to hear solving this not by tyres but dampers.

If you're talking about increasing the preload, then this will not harden the suspension. You need to change the spring to do this. Increasing the preload will lengthen the shock, and everything else being equal will effectively shorten the steering angle.

I would anticipate this might make it worse, not better.
 
I meant for only dampers, not the preload nor spring rate. Hope Hargon shocks have adjustable dampers though...
 
Andy, I'm playing catch up here... yes, in stock form the Cali's ('98-on) all have a high-speed wobble. Usually a good tire selection & slight geometry revision will resolve this. I recommend sliding the forks up into the triple trees ~19mm, and take your pic on tires away from the LaserTec. Dunlop had the best tires ever at one time with the D205s, but they are no longer. The best addition you can do (especially for your track days), is to purchase both firmer fork springs and longer rear shocks. Happy to get you a pair of both. For the rear shocks, I recommend the YSS 362 as seen HERE. Post again below if you have any other questions, or of course PM/e-mail me direct.
 
Thank you Todd. You know all about it. I will talk to the Vintage owner. '98 might be the year when California got 45mm front fork and oval swing arm. I have already slided the front forks 13mm up and rear shock length 25mm longer. I am still happy with normal springs of Stone, I think it was very hard for a preset. Help me when I became a serious racer :cool:
 
Hi,
I retrieve this topic because I've got a similar issue with my 2003 EV Touring. It starts weaving at relatively low speeds (120 -130 km/h) on large highway bends as soon as a "disturb" on the asphalt triggers the weave.n It's really annoying as it's not predictable and, as I said, it occurs at low speeds too. On straight roads, I can go up to 190 km/h with no issue at all.
I replaced the original shocks with a pair from a local producer (ORAM), no change. It does it with Pirelli Diablo, Metzler Lasertec, Avon Road rider either new or worn, at regular pressure or higher pressur or lower pressure. It does it if I keep the throttle steady, if I open or if I close it. I know of other California doing the same. A friend of mine, independent mechanic in Mandello, replaced the original fork of his 90's EV with the the new 45mm (the same I've got); no way. He also tried several tyres and shocks; no way.
I'm planning to replace the fork springs with something like Hyperpro and the shocks again. But I'm a bit concerned about the cost of the work with apparently no guarantee of success...

Any tip or suggestion? anyone who had and solved the issue?

Thanks

Mauro
 
I've just had a scan through the earlier posts. All of the suggestions are viable with the symptoms given.

A couple of things I didn't see mentioned. Forgive me if they were there and I missed them. ;)

1. Swing arm bearings, alignment and bearing tension. On a big block the swing arm should hopefully be fairly central in the gap. Make sure the pins are in equally to just firm on both sides and the lock nuts doing their job.

2. Frame bolts. Ensure all frame mounting bolts are firm. Pay special attention to the battery tray as they bolt into the gearbox housing. They should all be firm. One of these bolts often holds the battery earth too. If the battery tray isn't secure the frame will flex at that point. It doesn't take much. :shock:
 
I had the same problem with a Cali 1100i, head shaking badly especially after hitting a bump.
It was the rear shocks, the standard shocks were wearing out. IMO too soft anyway. I changed to Konis and had no more problems even at 100 mph.
 
thanks guys.

@ Morizzi: it seems that all suggestions given in previous posts have had different results, not always poitive. Probably, there are a number of possible causes that can make a California weaving. I understood, correct me if I'm wrong, that the issue described before was related to weave when riding on straight roads. While my Cali works just great on straight.

@ patrik: did the issue arose while bending or on straight roads?

I'm looking at the Gazi shocks, they're available here in Italy at a reasonable price. Anyone has experience with them?

Thanks again

Mauro
 
Nothing much to add but that on my 2000 Jackal I use the cheapest Hagons & BT45s, a Summer screen & a medium one in Winter -I've never had a weave or wobble on mine at silly speeds & only get a bit of liveliness over bumpy & bendy roads -I've accepted that with the unsprung weight of the drive box it was inevitable -I'll be pleased to try Todd's advice about lowering the forks in the trees though. I also have a pair of slightly over-length serviceable Koni's which need the right size bushing if I can get them...
I reckon if the bike's done over 20k it's worth really cleaning out the fork oil properly -yep, strip 'em- & putting in some high-quality stuff. Otherwise previous advice, go through everything- even on a newish bike -be sure everything is greased & set straight, fork brace tight... I'd reset the wheels as a matter of course if I felt a weave, & check wheel balance -easy, just need to know they don't fall to the same place every time they're allowed to spin & stop on their own- & easy enough to get re-balanced if so.
Another thing that's improved the ride on mine is to roll the bars back so I can rest my hands & arms more casually!
Best luck with yours mate -let us know what happens...
 
Did I miss it or did no one mention checking the steering damper?
 
This morning, I went to a suspension specialist. In his opinion, the shocks are ok and the issue is due to fork oil (old and low viscosity). He's also some concerns about the steering bearings; strange, because they seem ok to me. The bike has 85000 km on the clock, fork oil has 35k as well as the shocks. No word about steering damper. I'm having this problem since 45k.

I'm uncertain about replacing the bearings. I'll probably try with the oil, first.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks

Mauro
 
romeo said:
thanks guys.

@ Morizzi: it seems that all suggestions given in previous posts have had different results, not always poitive. Probably, there are a number of possible causes that can make a California weaving. I understood, correct me if I'm wrong, that the issue described before was related to weave when riding on straight roads. While my Cali works just great on straight.

@ patrik: did the issue arose while bending or on straight roads?


Thanks again

Mauro


It first apeared on a straight section of motorway. I had just had a new chip and some other mods done and was heading for Calais. Going through the Kenedy Tunnel in Belgium, I got a bit enthusiastic and wound it up. Near the end at around 100mph, I hit a fairly mild bump and got violent head shaking for a milisecond. Apart from sh+*^ng myself, it corrected itself with a bit of leaning over the tank. The hairiest moment I have experienced on a Guzzi.
After that it got worse on later trips, it was progressive. The tyres were good and I checked the head bearings etc, nothing worked, till I changed the rear shocks.
Personally I don't rate Cali shocks, now I always change then ASAP, the Jackal has a pair of Hagon Nitros, even better than the Konis.
 
The Kennedy tunnel is limited to 90 *K*mph or less if traffic imposes, and there's a good reason for that. Belgium is not a place for speeding even on a behaving bike, go to Germany for that kind of riding.
 
RJVB said:
The Kennedy tunnel is limited to 90 *K*mph or less if traffic imposes, and there's a good reason for that. Belgium is not a place for speeding even on a behaving bike, go to Germany for that kind of riding.

Sorry Officer.
 
quick update.
I checked rear swing arm for alignement and bearing tightnes: small adjustament required (1 mm misalignment);
then, I changed the fork oil; I used SAE 10 again (IPONE). after the change, the reaction of the fork changed noticeably when pulling it down and up;
next saturday, I'll check steering head bearings. I hope I don't have to change them but I'll see.

The plan is then to do a test ride without the windshield.

I'm crossing my fingers. A friend of mine had his cali checked for frame alignement and they found it's twisted by 4 dgrees. :-(

I'll keep you posted.

Cheers

Mauro
 
ok, the bearings were not as new but they can still do their job, so I cleaned them and packed with fresh grease. The reason why I didn't replace them is that I didn't want to change too many thing at the same time, in order to verify the effects of each work done; and basically....because I didn't have the spare parts and on Saturday you can't find where to buy them :laugh: :laugh:

Well, as planned, this morning I went for a test ride, prior to fit the windshield again. The bike seems (I want to ride more before I say "is") much better; while bending in where it used to "get crazy" the Cali almost "jumped" on a road irregularity; in past days, this would have caused my pants fill up with a brown organinc susbstance... today, the Cali just started wobbling but immediately recovered the correct stability. Of course, we're still talking of a cruiser not a supersport, but I'm satisfied now; particularly, if I consider that the tyres have 10000 km and the rear one is badly worn.

Next time, with the windshield....

Cheers
 
I had this problem with my 2003 California Special Sport which I bought new in 2005. The bike would weave at speeds over 85 mph. I had the leather guzzi bags on the bike and thought it was because of them so I took them off (but not the bag frame). That made no difference.

I put stainless steel Hagon rear shocks on the bike but not because I thought it would solve this problem. I put them on because, with the stock shocks, going over speed bumps would almost buck my wife off the back. Anyway, I mention the shock change in case anyone's wondering what I run. Also, I do not have a windshield.

One thing I tried was replacing the stock wheels with the tubeless EV rims. At that time I ran Battleaxe tires and was able to get the bike up to around 100 mph, maybe a little more, without a problem.

After some consultation with a number of people I moved the fork tubes up until the tops are just about touching the handle bars (I can still get a rag through the space for cleaning). This is what Todd suggested previously in this thread and what he suggested to me personally. I did not change the fork springs however because they still seemed right for my weight + the bike's. BTW, as an aside, I do change my fork oil regularly according to guzzi specs.

I also lowered the front tire pressure to about 25 lbs. But I think what really solved the problem was not using a front tire with any kind of wavy line down the middle. I was able to increase my non-wobble speed by these methods, but it was still there at the very high end sometimes. BTW, I also removed the steering damper (or whatever that gadget is called on the left side of the Special Sport). I don't think that thing accomplished anything and I mention it here in case anyone's interested. I think about putting it back on just for looks have been too lazy.

Currently I am running Avon Storm AV55 110/80 on the front and Avon Storm AV56 150/70 on the rear. I have no wobble whatever. I have increased the front tire pressure back to the recommended 33 lbs and still no wobble. With a tail wind and on a slight downhill stretch I get the bike up to 136 mph without wobble. Due to the nature of the road I do this on I am unable to sustain this speed. However, elsewhere I regularly get up to previously undreamed of speeds without a wobble, both loaded with gear and unloaded.

I am convinced the issue can be solved by moving the forks tubes up and also finding the right tires. Unfortunately, finding the right tires can be an expensive and time consuming project complicated by the fact that manufacturers are constantly changing them. In addition to the previously mentioned Battleaxes, I tried Diablo Strada's without good results. I am not trying to start a tire thread but I think in this instance tires are a key factor. I recently bought a new rear and noticed Avon has discontinued my particular model and "upgraded" it. I was still able to get one of the older models however even though they are now discontinued.

I am also convinced that the right tire will be one without any wavy tread lines, especially on the front.

I think tires are key because, in addition to this experience with my Special Sport, back in the day I had a 1966 BMW R69S (with Earl's fork). It was extremely sensitive to what kind of tire was on the rear and would wobble if it did not like the tire. I hated it when "my" tire was discontinued and I'd have to start the process of elimination all over again.

Sorry to be long-winded but wanted to give as thorough a report as possible since I know how disappointing (and not to mention dangerous) a high speed wobble can be, especially for those of us who enjoy high speeds!

BTW, some people have suggested my speedo is wrong and that the bike is not capable of 136. To them I say, do not pop my balloon. The speedo says 136. And really, I can only get up that fast under certain conditions. Mostly tops is around 120/125 which is still fine with me, especially when there's no wobble.
 
03 EV Touring, same thing. So??? Whos got the best shock for the type of riding I do?! Its almost ethereal isn't it?
"IF" you were to ride quickly down a road full of corners and uneven pavement with your wife and camping gear on board, what shocks would you wish you had? Pete
 
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