A while back I had a question about a sporadic clutch knocking sound at idle with the clutch engaged (lever not pulled in). Geordie said that his Breva was missing a spacer or something and was replaced under warranty. Has anyone else had this issue? The bike runs great, shifts great, but when at neutral on the kick stand makes a periodic knock. It does not make the sound when cold after first starting. It hast to be warmed first before the knock starts. Should I be concerned? Half of my Guzzi friends say it is probably OK but they have not heard it. My dealer is not so great so I wouldn't really take it to them. There is a very good dealer about an hour away that i am going to next Friday or Saturday to have them listen to it. What COULD it be?
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clutch knocking question
- Thread startertripleman
- Start date
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Some of the early Breva 11's had insufficient packing in the face cam shock absorber and this led to horrible clankings. It doesn't do any harm but it IS a horrendous racket. It's a box out job to fix it.
The other thing is to make sure that the TB's are well ballanced otherwise the shafts and pinions biff back and forth with the uneven power pulses of the individual cylinders.
pete
The other thing is to make sure that the TB's are well ballanced otherwise the shafts and pinions biff back and forth with the uneven power pulses of the individual cylinders.
pete
Geordie wrote:
Why not attach the PDF to your reply?
Why not attach the PDF to your reply?
Geordie wrote:
Geordie wrote:
Why not just attache the PDF so it is available on the forum?
Why not just attache the PDF so it is available on the forum?
bushranger
Just got it firing!
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Just started using guzzitech, and very pleased that have
My Griso makes exactly the clutch knocking sound you describe, and used to worry me quite a lot. I've had the bike a year now and had stopped worrying as much as it never seemed to get any worse, it's really nice to know that it is not a major problem. Don't think I'll bother with the spacer kit knowing it is not causing any mechanical issues
My Griso makes exactly the clutch knocking sound you describe, and used to worry me quite a lot. I've had the bike a year now and had stopped worrying as much as it never seemed to get any worse, it's really nice to know that it is not a major problem. Don't think I'll bother with the spacer kit knowing it is not causing any mechanical issues
cyclobutch
Cruisin' Guzzisti
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It is a fact that the Griso clutch does make a fearsome racket. Scares Ducati riders at the lights it's that bad. In search of a cure for transmission judder and clattering I actually had mine pulled down and respaced under recall - the work that perhaps Pete was referring to above (yes box out is not to be taken on too lightly I think). This has made no discernible difference whatsoever on my bike.
There are no major clonks perhaps, put rolling along at around 30 mpg without the ear plugs in I can hear a certain amount of unpleasantness going on down below.
There are no major clonks perhaps, put rolling along at around 30 mpg without the ear plugs in I can hear a certain amount of unpleasantness going on down below.
How is it that it is not causing future mechanical issues? What exactly is going on in there? Character? I am not confident my dealer will or knows how to deal with this issue let alone have the specific tool to add the spacer. My warranty runs out in a couple months. I can just see selling my Griso to someone in the future trying to explain that the monster in the gearbox is trying to get out but just ignore it, he won't hurt anyone. Moto Guzzi says it is not a problem. What would BMW, Suzuki Triumph do in this situation? I have decided to leave it alone for now as my bike is such a joy to ride and quite frankly leaving well enough alone feels like the best path.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
OK. So what exactly do you want to know?
I can TRY and explain to you how the face cam shock absorber works on the input shaft of the gearbox, it's really a very simple device that has been around for decades, almost centuries. I can also try to explain why in real terms it isn't going to create a problem if it is left un-addressed at least in the short to medium term.
What I don't want is to waste any more of my life explaining things to people who then seem to decide that it is their right to blame and abuse ME for problems with their bikes. The long and the short of it is that if you want mechanical perfection why bother buying a rare bike from a limited production/small volume manufacturer? Not that the bigger manufacturers are any better really but they are seen as being so and cover their failures more effectively.
So, would you like an explanation? If so I'm quite happy to provide one, but please, don't piss and moan about YOUR choice of purchase. Nobody forced you to buy the bike!
Pete
I can TRY and explain to you how the face cam shock absorber works on the input shaft of the gearbox, it's really a very simple device that has been around for decades, almost centuries. I can also try to explain why in real terms it isn't going to create a problem if it is left un-addressed at least in the short to medium term.
What I don't want is to waste any more of my life explaining things to people who then seem to decide that it is their right to blame and abuse ME for problems with their bikes. The long and the short of it is that if you want mechanical perfection why bother buying a rare bike from a limited production/small volume manufacturer? Not that the bigger manufacturers are any better really but they are seen as being so and cover their failures more effectively.
So, would you like an explanation? If so I'm quite happy to provide one, but please, don't piss and moan about YOUR choice of purchase. Nobody forced you to buy the bike!
Pete
Ran out of the tablets did you Pete.... I have a can of Breva fixer for $99.99 guarentfuckenteed...... better than marvel mystery oil, cause my product has no mystery, its aerospace advanced chemicals that address design and manufacturing problems in low volume products..... crap, for a hundred bucks, its a steal, and comes with a certificate of conformance..... I take paypal, visa and amex.....
Dealers do not contact me, i'm doing this for the guzzi community.... (unless you gots some cash, the call me, or email me or twitter me what ever the hell that is)
cheers bud
Dealers do not contact me, i'm doing this for the guzzi community.... (unless you gots some cash, the call me, or email me or twitter me what ever the hell that is)
cheers bud
cyclobutch
Cruisin' Guzzisti
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I'm guessing the face cam thingy is much like the one on the end of my BSA A10 crankshaft? And therefore it might well soften and improve as the mileage mounts. I'm guessing that they had to switch to something like this when they adopted the single sided s/arm.
You do of course wonder what's happening in there with the sounds of all those big bits of metal bashing together - at least on the Guzzi they are reasonably big though I suppose. I guess personally from being used to the T3 variants and having read the reviews on the modern stuff (as in there were some good ones) I expected this one to be a bit more Japanese feeling/sounding than it is.
If in part it's been my straight cut whine that's getting on your tats Pete then just tell me to shut the F up, I'm almost OK with that.
You do of course wonder what's happening in there with the sounds of all those big bits of metal bashing together - at least on the Guzzi they are reasonably big though I suppose. I guess personally from being used to the T3 variants and having read the reviews on the modern stuff (as in there were some good ones) I expected this one to be a bit more Japanese feeling/sounding than it is.
If in part it's been my straight cut whine that's getting on your tats Pete then just tell me to shut the F up, I'm almost OK with that.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Sorry, I'm currently jet lagged and have come home to looking after my 82 year old mum in law who has parkinsons disease and vascular dementia, can hardly walk and is incontinent. I've also got a 15 year old son who seems intent on wrecking his life so I'm on a bit of a short fuse, I apologise. Also the last person I spent a heap of time trying to help over the net called me a piece of shit because he'd made a few stupid financial decisions and couldn't afford his bike so I AM a bit cynical at the moment:lol:
The face cam shock absorber is exactly like the one on your Beezer crank but it's on the input shaft to the gearbox, the four and five speed boxes had one too. Gimme a few hours and I'll dig out some pics and give you an explanation of what's happening.
Pete
The face cam shock absorber is exactly like the one on your Beezer crank but it's on the input shaft to the gearbox, the four and five speed boxes had one too. Gimme a few hours and I'll dig out some pics and give you an explanation of what's happening.
Pete
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Just getting back to this.
Parts 8 and 10 above are the face cams that absorb the shocks of the individual cylinders firing and propelling the pistons down the bore. As the shaft tries to twist the faces run up each other, one is locked to the shaft the other is on the gear that engages with the gear on the secondary shaft.. The cam locked to the shaft by splines compresses the spring, (The stacked belvile washers parts #13) and slides up the splines. when the thrust is relieved at the end of the stroke the 'Spring' pushes the moving cam (Part 10.) back down the splines and the cams realign at the 'Bottom' of their range.
with the noisy boxes there is insufficient light spring packing, (Parts # 11) betwixt the collar #12 and the cam #10. These are very weak springs and are supposed to just keep the cams lightly pressed together when the engine is idling. If there is insufficient then the cams aren't held together soas the engine fires there is a small amount of free play between the cam faces nd when the shaft accelerates and decellerates during the 720 degree cycle of the motor they knock back and forward against each other making the knocking/hammering noise.
thing is this ONLY happens under conditions of no load and the forces involved are, by the standards of the machine, very low. so low as to be almost inconsequential. This is why the factory and probably most mechanics who understand what the noise is will tell you that it will do no harm because,certainy in the short to medium term it won't. Perhaps over aperiod of several weeks of idling in the life of a bike the hammering *might* become an issue depending on how much end float there actually is. it *might* also in the very long tem I suppose have the potential to shorten spline life on the shaft but to be honest I'd doubt it.
Having said that it IS a dreadful racket and when the box comes out to do the clutch would seem to be the obvious time to address it. If it were mine I honestly can't say whether I'd do something about it or just leave it until I had it apart for something else. The anal retentive in me would want to fix it but understanding what is happening the lazy bastard in me would probably leave it until I had to do the clutch!!!!:laugh:
Pete
sorinpetrila
Just got it firing!
Hi to all. Can anyone tell me if this is the sound that can be solved by adding those two washers?
Thank you.
Sorin
Thank you.
Sorin
Sarin, it sounds like the problem Pete describes. It is quite a job to add those washers as it requires gearbox disassembly.
John, do you have the PDF they were referencing. Also, trying to see where they talk about adding spacers. I see where the spacers go but was it a kit that was issued for the fix or is there a spec for the washers and how many to add. Mine has been knocking since new (50,000km ago) and not concerned but at some point in the future I will have to change the clutch so might as well tackle this at the same time.