Differences between 2016 V7II Racer and 2015 V7 Racer..?

[Maj Steve Trevor]

I am thinking of trying to pick up a slightly older V7 Racer, some of which are still floating around new for very good prices. Just curious whether anyone can speak to the differences between the 2016 V7II and the immediately previous years, 2015 esp (but also 2013 or 14, which appear essentially the same as the 2015). Beyond the obvious aesthetic differences of tank and seat etc, I am wondering both about (1) feel and handling and (2) any power or performance differences. Thanks!

 

[tonUPRacer]

I have the older 2013 Racer. Biggest changes were I think in this order, 2015 6 speed Transmission, ABS/Traction Control, 2017, New head design, Better rear shocks. I would imagine each subsequent change brought improvement in handling and power. I would probably buy the most recent bike within my budget. I'm sure others with more expertise will chime in.

Even though the changes are quite significant from 2013 to 2018, they haven't been big enough for me to trade in my 2013 (which I have spent a significant amount of time and money) to get to my liking to buy a new bike that will require much of the same attention that I've already invested. (Front and rear suspension, exhaust, electrics, mirrors, etc, etc,)

 

[Maj Steve Trevor]

I have the older 2013 Racer. Biggest changes were I think in this order, 2015 6 speed Transmission, ABS/Traction Control, 2017, New head design, Better rear shocks. I would imagine each subsequent change brought improvement in handling and power. I would probably buy the most recent bike within my budget. I'm sure others with more expertise will chime in.

Even though the changes are quite significant from 2013 to 2018, they haven't been big enough for me to trade in my 2013 (which I have spent a significant amount of time and money) to get to my liking to buy a new bike that will require much of the same attention that I've already invested. (Front and rear suspension, exhaust, electrics, mirrors, etc, etc,)

I have test ridden the 2017 III and the 2016 II, and I have to say that I liked the II better. I understand that the III has a better engine, but the controls, seating position, etc all felt more natural on the 2016. Have not ridden any of the earlier years, but I am much tempted by that chrome tank on the 2015 and earlier... pretty darn boss..

 

[tonUPRacer]

Yeah, I'm chrome tank fan, folks either love it or hate it.

 

[usedtobefast]

I have test ridden the 2017 III and the 2016 II, and I have to say that I liked the II better. I understand that the III has a better engine, but the controls, seating position, etc all felt more natural on the 2016. Have not ridden any of the earlier years, but I am much tempted by that chrome tank on the 2015 and earlier... pretty darn boss..

I would have thought the III motor with 10% more power and better fueling would have been a big difference ... but no?
Also the 17 has Ohlins rear shocks which should be much better than previous years.

 

[Maj Steve Trevor]

I would have thought the III motor with 10% more power and better fueling would have been a big difference ... but no?
Also the 17 has Ohlins rear shocks which should be much better than previous years.

Yeah I know, I expected that too. I’m sure there are situations where you’d notice it, but to me the II was fine. It did make an interesting sort of “whistling” noise that the III didn’t, but I liked that. Really fun to ride..

 

[Kev M]

Correct if I'm wrong, but I thought the year/mk differences were a little different.

IIRC:

12 (EU) / 13 (NA) - 14 = MK I

15 = MK I, but wet alternator

16 = MK II revised ergos, ABS, TC

17= MK III new motor with hemi heads, bunch of other chassis changes.

 

[usedtobefast]

In the US, MK II got the 6 speed, MK I 5 speed.

 

[Kev M]

In the US, MK II got the 6 speed, MK I 5 speed.

Oops yes, forgot to include that.

 

[Godfrey]

The entire III engine is beefed up and stronger than the I and II models, with better oil system. There's much, much more potential in the III's hemi heads than the Heron heads on the older models. The III chassis is stronger, the steering head larger with bigger, stronger bearings, and the III's Öhlins shocks are about a $1300-1500 update all in themselves.

The IIIs feel slighter larger and a little slower steering than the prior models, but the difference is a nuance. Stock from the dealer, the OEM map and running on the III is better; fit the GT-Rx map with a set of good mufflers that don't strangle the breathing, and the performance difference is vastly greater.

Friends I trust whom I ride with ride liter--plus Sport and Adventure Touring bikes with vastly more power ... they have ridden my Racer on the twisty mountain roads around here come back with a huge smile on their faces .. "Amazingly rideable, comfortable, fast cornering bike you got there. No wonder I can barely keep up with you. " I know they can blow me away... I'm a doddering old man nowadays. .. But on the road, few of them do.

I've only sat on the II Racer, the III just felt better to me even sitting still.

It's all in what sings to you in the end. Fall in love, take care of it, fettle it to suit you, and with a Guzzi you have a bike for life.

 

[Bill Hagan]

I am mighty fond of my V7 II Stornello, but you may want to look at the website I posted over on the "Stornello or Racer" thread:

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactu....com_weekly&utm_source=Motorcycle.com20170824

Of course, as I also said there: "I hate data; much prefer BS. Oh, I forget; I'm a lawyer."

BTW, Maggiore, you are in easy striking distance of Cross Junction. Come out sometime. I am having some local and out-of-area Guzzisti visiting for some tech days in my Moto Grappa (shop) c. 1-15 February. PM me your email if interested and I'll forward the details.

Bill

 

[Maj Steve Trevor]

^^ I have no doubt that the improvements to the Mark III are real and substantial, but what can I say, riding the 2016 Mark II racer just felt much better to me than the 2017. I would like to try out the 2015 to see how it feels, as I like the looks of it even better. Got a lead on one, as soon as the weather warms up...

 

[Godfrey]

^^ I have no doubt that the improvements to the Mark III are real and substantial, but what can I say, riding the 2016 Mark II racer just felt much better to me than the 2017. I would like to try out the 2015 to see how it feels, as I like the looks of it even better. Got a lead on one, as soon as the weather warms up...

There's always room for personal taste.

For instance, the 850-T3 was an improved model compared to the 850-T ... a little stronger frame, a slightly better fork, swingarm, triple disks, etc. But when I rode both bikes, stock, back to back, I loved how the 850-T felt compared to the 850-T3. One piece of that, which I discovered much much later, is that the T had a distributor with a more aggressive timing curve than the T3: the T3 timing curve advanced from 1° at idle slowly to 30° at 5500 rpm where the T timing curve advances from 10° at idle to 34°, rather more quickly.

Feel is very much an amalgam of the particular bike's specific design and setup AND how you react to it, what you're sensitive to. For instance, the III Racer has a heavier, stronger frame, repositioned top shock mount, and a slightly slower, slightly heavier steering feel. I like this: it is much more akin to what my 850T and LMV felt like. But some who like a light, fast feel don't particularly care for it.

So if you like the II or I better, go find a nice one and enjoy the hell out of riding it. They're all pretty solid, reliable, consistent bikes. The V7III Racer was made for me and clicks every button.

 

[Bill Hagan]

Have read this thread from when I abandoned it for travel, chores, and even a day out on the Stornello. Lots of drama. But fun for the OP and those of us in the bleachers.

Different strokes and all of that. As a Griso guy and one who has ridden -- albeit not owned -- much faster machines, e.g., liter Gixxers and other similar stooopidly fast, grin- and ticket-getters, I can see how the Stornello is viewed as "mellow."

Actually, after a ride a few days ago on gravel, dirt, and OMG-I'm-gonna-crash mud roads, mellow is not a bad thing when it's fight-or-flight time. See here if you care: https://bill-and-kathi.smugmug.com/Short-Stornello-Romp-Jan-18/n-Txdv7x

Where I suppose I remain in the slow-witted minority is in seeing the contrast between II & III power. I understand completely the Stornello comments, yet still find myself not seeing any dramatic differences in any aspect of riding a III or a II.

Do not think there is any problem with my brother’s III, and I put a few hundred miles on it in Va., Md., W.V., and Pa. Granted, it wasn’t my new m/c, and who wants to break another guy’s machine?! Still, I varied riding in terms of throttle and terrain, and, having just done similar riding on my own II, think I did as good a seat-of-the-pants compo as one can.

None of that matters, of course. U2BF and Godfrey — and countless others — love their Racers, and that’s good enough for them and me. The OP was lucky enough to get in a demo of both powerplants, and that is what I would urge anyone interested in either model to do … if possible.

OK, back down to the Moto Grappa today to get ready for some visitors for my two-week “tech days” event while Kathi is in Seattle. It’s a mess, but the most important task is to ensure there’s enough beer. One’s gotta pay for that expertise.

OBTW, survived the birthday festivities. Unless you've BTDT, you really cannot fully appreciate how exhausting being around just-turned-11 twin girls -- and their shrieking friends -- can be. I have the tees now from several years of these parties; I may ask Kathi for a bye next year. Whew.

Bill

 

[Godfrey]

What a lovely house you have there, Bill!

Since I've never ridden a Stornello, nor any other II for that matter, I can't comment on the performance differences credibly. However, even with just what I've done with Racer (changed the mufflers and changed the ECU map), the performance is VASTLY better than it was off the showroom floor, and I wouldn't say it was poor then either. I wonder if doing the same thing on the II models brings as large an improvement and what the absolute value of the results is. The III generation hemi head motor has to breathe better than the II heron heads can.

No matter really. As I've said before, whatever makes your smile happen is all that matters. I would like a V11 Sport or a Griso too; I can afford it, but I just don't really know where the heck I'd put another motorcycle at this point. My space for such things is extremely limited.

 

[Maj Steve Trevor]

Coming back to this thread, hoping someone can speak directly to how riding a 2015 Racer compares with a 2016 Racer. I know for sure that I am not getting a 2017 Mk III. I liked the feel of the 2016 on a test ride I did, but I like the looks of the 2015. Haven’t had the chance to ride one, but a dealer a couple hundred mile away has a 2015 still new available. The dealer is reluctant to let me do a real test ride on it, so I’m just wondering if anyone can testify to it before I get serious trying to convince him otherwise. I see the basic specs, but would be interested in a comparison of the ergonomics, how it feels on the legs, and whether anyone noticed differences in acceleration etc. Thanks!

 

[Stradagene]

...hoping someone can speak directly to how riding a 2015 Racer compares with a 2016 Racer. I know for sure that I am not getting a 2017 Mk III. I liked the feel of the 2016 on a test ride I did, but I like the looks of the 2015.

If they are both V7II R's, the 2016 and 2015 should be identical in terms of ergonomics.

That said, if you have the opportunity, I would suggest you test ride the 2015 since that's the one you seem to like aesthetically.
These are low volume production bikes, and there can be differences between them just based on the day they were assembled in the factory. Note for instance: https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/v7-ii-owners-clutch-advisory-bearing-omission.16098/
but differences between individual bikes may still exist without being this serious/obvious.
Worth test riding the bike you end up buying.

 

[Maj Steve Trevor]

If they are both V7II R's, the 2016 and 2015 should be identical in terms of ergonomics.

That said, if you have the opportunity, I would suggest you test ride the 2015 since that's the one you seem to like aesthetically.
These are low volume production bikes, and there can be differences between them just based on the day they were assembled in the factory. Note for instance: https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/v7-ii-owners-clutch-advisory-bearing-omission.16098/
but differences between individual bikes may still exist without being this serious/obvious.
Worth test riding the bike you end up buying.

Thanks. Yeah, I will never buy a bike without actually riding it first. Just want to know as much as possible about the 2015 before going out of my way to try to convince the Dealer to let me test ride it, and traveling a few hours to do so.

Ace to specs I’ve seen the seat height is a little different between ‘15 and ‘16, and the Dealer thought, but wasn’t sure, that ‘16 might have the engine tinted slightly forward. I know that on the ‘17 Mk III my knees were bumping the cylinders but not on the ‘16. So hoping they wouldn’t on the ‘15...

 

[Godfrey]

..
As to specs I’ve seen the seat height is a little different between ‘15 and ‘16, and the Dealer thought, but wasn’t sure, that ‘16 might have the engine tinted slightly forward. I know that on the ‘17 Mk III my knees were bumping the cylinders but not on the ‘16. So hoping they wouldn’t on the ‘15...

I really don't believe the specs as a way of determining what is what on these bikes at this level of precision. They're fine as rough guides, but I've often been surprised to read the spec than sit on the bike and have it be completely different from how the specs ought to make it be. So I agree 100%: never buy a motorcycle without sitting on and riding it. And always realize that how a bike feels after you've spent a week getting used to riding it is often very very different from how it feels that first time you throw a leg over...

I never rode the 2016 V7II Racer, but when I sat on one and then on the 2017 V7III Racer, one right after the other several times, I couldn't feel any difference whatever in the riding position or the position of the cylinders with respect to my legs, etc. It's curious to me that these bikes felt so different to you.

My understanding is that the engine was slightly lowered at the front mounting position in the V7II models compared to V7, and that it's position is the same in the V7III. The V7III's new engine does have somewhat larger cylinder head covers, but as far as I could see from sitting on the bike with both feet on the pegs, that might account for them being about an eighth of an inch closer to my knees. I also know from riding my 850T and LMV bikes for so many miles and years that at various times where the cylinder heads and my knees ended up tended to vary by around a half inch depending on the temperature, how fatigued I was, what kind of mood I was in, etc.

However, the only Guzzi I ever bumped my knees into the cylinder heads on was my first one, the '76 850-T3, because of its sit-up-and-beg riding position with pegs that were too far forward for me, and bars that were way to high/wide/close to me... the LeMans/Racer/sportified 850T seating position just fits my body, not much I can do to change that...