Does ECU Compensate for Mods?

[guzziben47]

There are a lot of posts here about air / fuel ratio issues, and the engine running lean because of environmental regulations. And I know there are at least three ways the engine squirts extra air into the mix: the lines from the infamous evap can, the stepper motor, and the idle bleed screws. So it seems logical to expect that if you remove or block one or more of these items, you'll richen up the mix and help the engine run better. But the question I have is won't the ECU compensate for any of those changes? For example, if you remove the evap can, and that means less air goes into the throttle bodies, then won't the ECU adjust the mix to reduce the amount of fuel added, so the same lean ratio is maintained?

 

[draidt]

In a closed loop system it will adjust the A/F mixture only to the parameters that is programed in to meet the EPA mandated emissions, If you want more then that well you have to go out of the box. Todd will be more then happy to assist you I am sure.

 

[guzziben47]

I don't want more from the engine.

If you are saying the ECU will compensate, then why make these modifications? It seems like a lot of people disconnect the evap can thinking that will make the bike richer. I don't think it will make a difference, but I'm not as knowledgeable as a lot of people here, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something....

 

[Penis Rotor]

In a closed loop system it will adjust the A/F mixture only to the parameters that is programed in to meet the EPA mandated emissions.

Errr. It's a bit more complicated than that Dan. Blaming the emissions regs is an easy opt out and actually is fairly insulting to the ngineers working on modern vehicles. Even the old pushrod motors have been changed and adapted over the years to run both cleaner and to produce more work from less fuel. The new 8V-motors are in another ball park all together.

As to 'Why change stuff?'. There are a variety of reasons from attempting to improve performance to the merely cosmetic. I've changed the pipes on my bikes for cosmetic reasons. Many people fit map modifiers and the like to gain better or improved performance. It 's all about choice and experimentation but it isn't compulsory. if you're happy with the way your stock bke runs and looks? Why change it?

Pete

 

[GuzziMoto]

I don't want more from the engine.

If you are saying the ECU will compensate, then why make these modifications? It seems like a lot of people disconnect the evap can thinking that will make the bike richer. I don't think it will make a difference, but I'm not as knowledgeable as a lot of people here, so I'm wondering if I'm missing something....

I can't speak for everyone, but I removed the evap system to fix a tank venting issue (it made zero difference in how the motor ran), I put a valve to turn off the stepper motor to stabilize the idle and improve the closed throttle response (the motor no longer hangs when you shut the throttle, but it did not change the fueling), and I added a PCV and AutoTune from Todd (that actually improved the fueling). You don't NEED to do all that to have a descent running motor, but after doing all that my bike has better fueling and throttle response then it does stock, doesn't drip fuel out the tank vent, and it might make a little more power. But the improvement in the way it runs is more important then the increase in power. It is not about quantity, but quality.

 

[draidt]

In a closed loop system it will adjust the A/F mixture only to the parameters that is programed in to meet the EPA mandated emissions.

Errr. It's a bit more complicated than that Dan. Blaming the emissions regs is an easy opt out and actually is fairly insulting to the ngineers working on modern vehicles. Even the old pushrod motors have been changed and adapted over the years to run both cleaner and to produce more work from less fuel. The new 8V-motors are in another ball park all together.

As to 'Why change stuff?'. There are a variety of reasons from attempting to improve performance to the merely cosmetic. I've changed the pipes on my bikes for cosmetic reasons. Many people fit map modifiers and the like to gain better or improved performance. It 's all about choice and experimentation but it isn't compulsory. if you're happy with the way your stock bke runs and looks? Why change it?

Pete

I agree with you Pete about it being more complicated then that, I do not blame the engineers or Piaggio because I do understand what hoops they have to go through to satisfy Big Brother along with the crap gas that Big Brother mandates. I did the full Guzzitech Monty with my Norge, the difference between now and stock (even with the latest maps) is like night and day. That being said I don't feel the need to do anything with my V7C ( yeah I know it's a small block) other then to run with the Mistrals with the baffles in and my 1100 California Vintage with Mistrals and baffles in.
The 1200 Norge definitely benefited from the massaging. Interesting to note that the V7 and 1100's use the 15RC Ecu and the 1200 2V uses the 5AM Ecu. I do not offer an opinion or profess to know anything about the 8V 1200's as I do not own one or have ridden one.

 

[Penis Rotor]

It is my belief that, oddly enough, the 2VPC models will benefit more from map modifiers than a well set up 4VPC model. That isn't to say that the 4VPC models can't be improved upon. Far from it, but the head design and camming of the 4VPC engines, (Which IMHO are the critical factors.) are designs of a 'New Age' rather than the 2VPC models which were and remain, products of the 1960's.

I'm sure that the people who are doing the designs of the 'Modern' engines are quite canny enough to be working hard towards moving away from 1960's technology and it's limitations. To continue to believe that 1960's 'Fixes' are still relevant is poor science.

In the same way that there ismore than one way to skin a cat there is also more than one way to improve the vollumetric efficiency of an engine. Simply freeing up the gas flow is not going to be entirely effective unless the flow of gas contributes to cylinder fill. Simply flowing more mass through the head will achieve little. You need to get the mollecules in, and KEEP them in for any significant gains to be made.

Don't belive me? look at the cam timing profile and lift figures for machines from the 1960's and those of todays top engine builders who are using 'Modern' designs. Then think about the 'Why'?

Pete