Griso 8V - tuning result

[Cosimo Giorgiani]

Hello,

I would like to share the result of my ECU update and test runs on a Tovami bench by Henk de Boer (HdeB Engineering) from the Netherlands.

The exhaust fitted is a Zard (legal version). The ECU was updated by HdeB with separate cylinder adjustments and the result is displayed by the black lines on the graph below. After that a Power Commander V was fitted and those results are displayed by the red lines in the graph.
Furthermore the air filter was replaced by a BMC filter and the box modified (holes drilled and inlet removed). Lambda sensor also removed.

The result is a very powerful and smooth running bike with torque all over the rev range. Roundabouts and city rides are no longer a pain to ride as it was before. Money very well spent.

 

[GTM®]

The exhaust fitted is a Zard (legal version). The ECU was updated by HdeB with separate cylinder adjustments and the result is displayed by the black lines on the graph below. After that a Power Commander V was fitted and those results are displayed by the red lines in the graph.
The result is a very powerful and smooth running bike with torque all over the rev range. Roundabouts and city rides are no longer a pain to ride as it was before. Money very well spent.

Thanks for sharing/posting. One important note, the ECU cannot be set up for separate cylinder adjustments, only the PC-V offers this option. I've been offering this mod for well over 7 years now with many happy Guzzisti enjoying the results.

 

[Cosimo Giorgiani]

Hi Todd,

I'm not a very technical guy but this is how he explained it to me: Henk drilled a hole in both exhaust pipes enabling him to read exactly the mixture going out each cylinder. He then flashed the ECU to come to an already more balanced performance.
The invoice says indeed that the finetuning happened per cylinder separately with the PC V. My mistake

Henk is one of the few FI guru's in The Netherlands, never satisfied with a standard solution but really getting into the 0's and 1's and well known for his work on racing Ducati's.

Anyway, I just picked it up again after a tyre (Michelin Power Road 3) and fluids change from the local shop so I had to be a bit careful riding home but it is a real beast now. I was used to the sheer power of 4 cylinders but this V2 is so much more fun.

 

[scott_m]

...The result is a very powerful and smooth running bike with torque all over the rev range. Roundabouts and city rides are no longer a pain to ride as it was before. Money very well spent...

Really? According to the dyno graph, your power delivery and torque with respect to RPM, are EXACTLY THE SAME as before, only with a slight increase at any point, with a peak gain of 4%. I tend to think you are projecting what you think you should feel versus what the numbers are really saying.

Now, smoother running is not depictable nor discernable from a dyno run, and I will have to tke you at face value there. But I wonder if you looked at your own data objectively.

I shudder to think at what price too.

 

[Mi_ka]

If the guy is happy, he is happy!

Myself I'd like more info:
Braked run or inertial test?
Climate conditions look similar (moisture, pressure vs temperature) but this CF displayed is based on them or is something else added in the equation?
Also, and I doubt this is the case as you say the guy is a respectable tuner over there, were both curves taken on the same number of test run from start? (usually maximum power is the 3rd/4th run from start)
(Sometimes less experienced or careful dyno operators do set up and measuring mistakes that give big measuring fluctuations).

 

[scott_m]

I don't doubt he's happy and I think that's great. However, the scientist in me doubts a noticable difference of 4% as being all that, especially given the dyno and the as yet unknown cost/benefit.

 

[Cosimo Giorgiani]

@ scott: Well, if you look closer then the graphs are not exactly the same. Besides, I get the impresion you're not looking nor reading correctly because the black lines are after the ECU update and not the original factory settings. The PCV makes it even better.

Temp and Pressure are noted on the graph on the top right corner.
The tovami bench is a braked one.
Can't answer your other questions Mi-Ka, sorry. Henk knows what he's doing for more than 30 years already so I trust he takes everything into the equation.

And scott, you have no clue how poor the bike ran before the upgrade. Rough all over and the on/off effect at mid range revs was close to unbearable. It was a real pain to go over narrow roundabouts etc. and we have a lot of these roundabouts in the netherlands. Besides it was breathing like an old man at the high revs. Now it just goes and goes until the limiter kicks in. Guess that graphs don't tell the whole story and that's why I miss an initial test graph of the original bike.

And yes I'm happy and yes it did cost something. So what, the bike wasn't for free either.

 

[Mi_ka]

I would love to do some response tests on a dyno to present graphical clues (distance over time or time from steady to WOT etc ) comparisons pre and after tuning.
All these graphing possibilities go usually unnoticed by the dyno guys and clients as they have not been orderly established as methods to use the dyno.
Such dyno graphs would convince even the most doubtful guy.

 

[GuzziMoto]

Glad you achieved good results. My Griso has a simular type of set up from Todd, ECU re-flash and PCV with AutoTune module.
You did not mention the AutoTune, do you have it as well?
Sorry about the negative Nancy response from some. Thanks for sharing.

 

[scott_m]

I find it amazing how some can take it upon themselves to start calling names and such, if one dares to ask questions.

How adult like.

I have my doubts and I expressed them. I don't doubt that the gentleman is happy and that his bike runs better for him, however I fail to see a sizeable power increase in his dyno run, let alone one that could be called cost effective.

It's an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Take a chill pill...

 

[GuzziMoto]

Jeez, lighten up.
I am sorry you did not properly and thoroughly read the original post.
If you screw up and put your foot in your mouth you shouldn't get bent out of shape over such a light comment as that. Maybe if I put a smiley face after it.....

 

[Cosimo Giorgiani]

One more time Scott, you are not reading the graph correctly. There is NO, I repeat NO graph displayed of the stock bike as it was when I handed it over to Henk. You cannot draw your conclusion from this graph that there is no noticeable increase compared to the stock setup simply because that is not displayed.

In the end it doesn't really matter what it costs because how the bike ran in its stock setup was absolutely crap. The graph doesn't tell you how smooth it is, I am the only who can tell you the difference between the pre and post tune treatment and that is very noticeable in all areas.

 

[scott_m]

Cosimo,

I read it correctly. I am making my evaluation based upon a stock configured Griso at 96 hp. I see a gain. It's not fantastic but it's there. I was referring to the second upgrade you did. Between the two graphs, there is, in my opinion, insignificant hp gains and I've investigated the costs and I don't find it a great mod I'm looking to do. I totally understand rideability issues, and my compliments that your bike now runs the way you like.

I am sorry. I didn't mean to offend or incite and I don't need smiley faces either, just a little respect that when you put something like this out there, just like I did in my post on an upgrade, there are people who will question the modification. They are called skeptics.

I am one of those skeptics.

However, at the end of the day, I've always maintained that "Hey, it's your motorcycle, not mine". There are many roads to Mecca...

If you are happy, and it would appear that you are, I celebrate your happiness with the Marque and wish you the best of luck.

 

[Cosimo Giorgiani]

Nothing wrong with being sceptical but an increase from a stock bike (around 95 HP) to 112 HP I would not call insignificant.

The PC V just tops up the ECU upgrade to get the best out of the bike.

If I would have chosen value for money I would never have bought a Guzzi but a japanese sportsbike. But since I've had that, crashed it and chose fun for money I'm extremely happy with the Griso especially as it is now.

 

[GuzziMoto]

Also important is that the dip between 4 and 5 k was pretty well filled in and smoothed out. And the gains and that point in torque, just from the final tuning with the PCV, were nearly 10 ft-lbs.
Sure not everyone needs to do this type of thing. I am sure there are some people who are happy with the way their Griso's, 2 valve or 8 valve, run from the factory. But, and this is not just a Guzzi thing, there have been many people who wanted better then stock running out of their Guzzi and either went the way of Todd's solution or as was done here. And the results tend to be very good. Not just a 10 to 20 % increase in overall power, which is mainly what dyno's are used to show, but a bigger increase in ride-ability at less then full throttle. How is fuel mileage?
Again, excellent results and thanks for sharing. Enjoy .

 

[Cosimo Giorgiani]

Fuel consumption before and after the upgrade is in the order of 6.5 - 7 ltr per 100 km for daily use (commuting (partly motorway) and short tours) and that has a lot to do with how I ride. There must be people that have a better ratio .

 

[gvw]

Thanks for this Cosimo, I am soon to go through the same process with my 2010 8V SE. Have ordered a right side exhaust with cat from Todd and after that is delivered, will be looking at doing the ECU flash and PCV etc.

Hopefully it will be just as rideable with the exhaust only before the fuelling mods but when I eventually get it done, will have them do a run with the stock exhaust, the right side exhaust only and then the ECU flash and PCV.

As I have posted here before, the SE has a different map to the non SE (#34 and #68??)and it does not have the dip between 4K and 5K. Will be interested to see how much better it can get with fuelling as it is pretty good already. I commute in heavy traffic most days and have no problems with low speed crawling.

Do you have a .csv or .ddg file of your current map? Would be interesting to compare to these standard ones.

 

[HOG4DNR]

Thank you for sharing your results. I can not wait to get mine done, I'm in saving mode now.

 

[Mi_ka]

As I have posted here before, the SE has a different map to the non SE (#34 and #68??)and it does not have the dip between 4K and 5K.

Very big difference - aren't the SE and normal 8V supposed to be the same beside the cosmetic differences?

I am making my evaluation based upon a stock configured Griso at 96 hp.

96hps on a braked DJ or a Tovami? - even on steady braked tests there will be differences though much smaller than acceleration tests between brands.
However, 96-->112 maximum is not a small upgrade for an already pushed big bore air-cooled engine.