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Hepco&Becker engine protection bar installation for V7 850

A

anders

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
79
Location
Finland
These things seem to be pretty popular so I bought a set. Installation seemed pretty easy on the instructions and youtube videos but actually was really hard. I had a friend with me but still we had a hard time.
First of all has the H&B quality gone down. In my set the part that comes between the bars was full on sandblasting sand (inside) so I had to use time and effort to get that off with hoover and compressed air.

When installing it was really hard to hold the nuts because the cap between engine and frame is so narrow. I wouldn`t have got that done all by myself. In the installation manual it is said that these M10 bolts should be tighten to 49Nm torque. We tried that but after 50Nm they were still very loose and easily spinned with a ratchet. After 50Nm you just couldn`t keep the nut with regular spanner (and with open end). So we had to use impact wrench.

So what are your experiences/opinions; did you just tighten them to 50Nm and left there ? Also the bolt going "through the engine" was little bit too long so I had to cut it about 1-2mm to get the end cap fit precisely. It was also mentioned to 50Nm but I put in somewhere around 60Nm and it`s still feels litlle too loose.
 
Hello,

I don't have experience with the bar installation, but iam also wating for the bars to arrive for my bobber 850.

As I was expecting the nuts where the bars will be tightened one the frame I realise that one of that screws is already in bad shape out of the factory....

Sorry Anders for put me in the your post but I begin to think that this a difficult task.

He hope that the mechanic solves this without add more scratches to my new bike.

IMG_20240624_233204.jpg
 
I didn't have any problems fitting them to my V7-850 Anniversario. Quality of the parts was fine, except for the bolts which seemed poorly cut. The engine support bolt was OK. I didn't use a torque wrench, just tightened them up.

motoguzzimackers.com/2023/11/17/adding-engine-bars-to-my-v7-850/
 
anders said:
These things seem to be pretty popular so I bought a set. Installation seemed pretty easy on the instructions and youtube videos but actually was really hard. I had a friend with me but still we had a hard time.
First of all has the H&B quality gone down. In my set the part that comes between the bars was full on sandblasting sand (inside) so I had to use time and effort to get that off with hoover and compressed air.

When installing it was really hard to hold the nuts because the cap between engine and frame is so narrow. I wouldn`t have got that done all by myself. In the installation manual it is said that these M10 bolts should be tighten to 49Nm torque. We tried that but after 50Nm they were still very loose and easily spinned with a ratchet. After 50Nm you just couldn`t keep the nut with regular spanner (and with open end). So we had to use impact wrench.

So what are your experiences/opinions; did you just tighten them to 50Nm and left there ? Also the bolt going "through the engine" was little bit too long so I had to cut it about 1-2mm to get the end cap fit precisely. It was also mentioned to 50Nm but I put in somewhere around 60Nm and it`s still feels litlle too loose.
Click to expand...
To achieve a torque reading, the bolt had to be tight. Something just doesn't seem right with your torque wrench.
 
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Mackers said:
I didn't have any problems fitting them to my V7-850 Anniversario. Quality of the parts was fine, except for the bolts which seemed poorly cut. The engine support bolt was OK. I didn't use a torque wrench, just tightened them up.

motoguzzimackers.com/2023/11/17/adding-engine-bars-to-my-v7-850/
Click to expand...

Bolts where pretty "china quality" and and the same quality was in the rear rack and C-bow bracket set. Like you said
I found that the nuts would start OK but then bind up on the threads further along. Even with a dab of grease, brute force was required to tighten them.
Click to expand...
We found the exactly same and now that I think this probably explains why the torque wrench clicked way too soon. Not sure but original nuts might be stainless steel and the new bolts are not, could that combination cause it ? We didn`t use torque wrench to make the final tightening but we couldn`t use regular ratchet and spanner either because it was absolutely impossible to prevent the nut moving with spanner (open end) when another one did tighten with ratcher. And the closed end of the spanner didn`t fit there because the gap between frame and engine was so narrow. With impact wrench and spanner it was "easy"
Luckily I had friend with me that is very experienced mechanic. I would have left them too loose. But of course there is no way to say are they overtightened now, but we`ll see it...
And it`s pretty risky from H&B to tell in the installation manual "When assembling the product, it is necessary to use torque wrench."
I really hope I will never have to remove those :D

john zibell said:
To achieve a torque reading, the bolt had to be tight. Something just doesn't seem right with your torque wrench.
Click to expand...

Torque wrench should be okay. It has been calibrated two months ago and used just couple times after that. But I think there was something wrong with "new bolts and old nuts combination". They should have include everything new. If I would do this again I would use new lock nuts. Not sure would nylock nuts be ok or is the place too hot.


I also installed rear rack and C-Bow case mounting brackets. They were easier to install but bolt quality was very poor, especially in the button head bolts. And after all the aligning it is impossible to get cases aligned symmetrically. Luckily the difference is very small but when you see it you cannot unsee it :D Right one is maybe 10mm more towards the tail and maybe about 5-7mm higher than left one.
Well it is what it is. Tomorrow testing how much these affect to wind and stability.
 
The nuts for the bars are 'prevailing torque' nuts, also known as Stover nuts or metal locking nuts. They work different from standard nuts. Supposedly they are very resistant to loosening through vibrations.
 
H674 said:
The nuts for the bars are 'prevailing torque' nuts, also known as Stover nuts or metal locking nuts. They work different from standard nuts. Supposedly they are very resistant to loosening through vibrations.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I don`t know the right words for these, but I think they are nuts that are "lock nuts" and don`t be affected by heat like nyloc nuts are. Anyway it`s strange that H&B doesn`t mention this. But after 1500km they are fine so tighten them by the feel and don`t use torque wrench.

BTW. I haven`t noticed any differences in driving. So I could recommend these.
 
Exactly, these are lock nuts, but unlike nylocs, the locking is achieved by 'tapered' threads which are slightly deforming the threads on the bolt while tightening, which in turn causes the 'locking by damage', so to speak. If you google 'Stover nuts', 'prevailing torque nuts' or 'metal locking nuts', you will find plenty of info about the working principle of those.
 
H674 said:
Exactly, these are lock nuts, but unlike nylocs, the locking is achieved by 'tapered' threads which are slightly deforming the threads on the bolt while tightening, which in turn causes the 'locking by damage', so to speak. If you google 'Stover nuts', 'prevailing torque nuts' or 'metal locking nuts', you will find plenty of info about the working principle of those.
Click to expand...

I have used them in exhaust manifolds. But in that time they were always replaced if unscrewed. I was told they only work once and after you unscrew these the locking ability is gone.
 
These nuts loose some elasticity after each application, but they can be reused several times. H&B specifically mentions in the mounting instructions to reuse the original nuts from MotoGuzzi. After several hundred miles mine are rock-solid, no loosening at all.
 
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