IAW15RC.C8 ECU fail or buy another EV1100 ?

[EV1100fan]

Hi fellow technicians, my Guzzi is not starting anymore and even though ECU reads fine with Diag and contains the latest (that I know), it shows all is okay but won't start.
It failed first with only running stationary, then failed completely. I proved for myself ignition (flashlight detector) and injection (yets of petrol flying through the air!) are okay, but that does not help. Replaced the timing sensor (phase sensor) but no luck. Rarely, say 1 of 20 times, it tries to run for a few seconds.
Made a video today which more clearly shows what I'm up against :

I'm lost...

 

[EV1100fan]

another vid to show the ignition timing is normal for starting conditions. The 10 degree pre-ignition the Diag mentions, is a bit too enthousiastic, I think Checked compression in both cylinders, a nice 12 bar. Started with petrolpump switched off and only druplets come out of injectors, so back to a switched-on petrolpump and jets of petrol flying around again. Must be okay. I begin to wonder if I should not have filled my tank with 95/E10 or what have you, sort of newish petrol. Didn't have a choise on my last journey, usually try to fill her up with 98. But if my bike fail's caused by wrong petrol, thousands of cars/bikes must have failed. That's unlikely.
Don't know what to do next. Change out all petrol?

 

[john zibell]

My guess is you put an inductive timing light on the wires to confirm spark. That indicated coils are good, but doesn't say anything about the spark plugs or spark plug caps. I'd say put NGK 90 degree 5K ohm caps on the wires and new plugs. You apparently have fuel so she should run. If you have the techno research software see this thread for what the TPS should read https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/new-alaris-centurion-vdsts-info-instructions.1676/

 

[EV1100fan]

My guess is you put an inductive timing light on the wires to confirm spark. That indicated coils are good, but doesn't say anything about the spark plugs or spark plug caps. I'd say put NGK 90 degree 5K ohm caps on the wires and new plugs. You apparently have fuel so she should run. If you have the techno research software see this thread for what the TPS should read https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/new-alaris-centurion-vdsts-info-instructions.1676/

Thanks for replying and thinking along with me. Indeed the light uses a magnetic/coil sensor to pick up the current spike in the sparkplug lead. Sparkplugs and NGK caps are as good as new (2000km). They would not fail in pairs and both cylinders failed instantly on the highway, so I don't look at that level to find the cause.
Thought I might have put in the wrong type of petrol by accident, although I'd already driven 100km after topping up. But in France they now sell E85 (ethernol 85% with 15% petrol) and suppose somebody had interchanged the pistols and me not noticeing it. Assuming ethernol floats on super98... Also checked the compression ratio but at 12 bar okay. New vid in progress...

 

[EV1100fan]

Tried to investigate the failing spare petrol indicator too in the process, but for the moment that is beside the issue.
Still no luck. Even tried to start with a light airpressure on the tank in order to help injector push out the max of petrol. No result.

 

[Vagrant]

I'm sure your past the frustration point so sit back and relax. it's just an engine. it has three areas that have to work together. first is hard mechanical. the things that go up and down and all around. they are fine from what I see and hear. then you are down to fire and then fuel. I'm too lazy to go back and reread every thing but it's real easy to siphon out most of the fuel, dump it in the car and get some new known good fuel. EV's have a long history of electrical shortcomings. first did you check the air gap when you put the new cam sensor in. from there flush out the ignition switch with deoxit. replace every one of those relays with a brand new 5 prong so in the future they can be rotated one forward if you have another problem. there is a guy on wild Guzzi that sells quality ones cheap. somebody come up with his name. flush their holders out with deoxit and the fuse ones too. I have to do this every year or two on mine that sits for 9 months at a time in Az where it's dry. do you have a charger on the battery when trying to start it. it needs to spin over fast enough for the electronic unit to fire.
Johns right to suggest switching out the plug caps sometimes resistors fail. snip a 1/4" off the wire end too so you have fresh wire to screw them into. you did screw them on didn't you.

 

[V700Steve]

Are you sure it's not mechanical? It is a Hydro, maybe the cam & followers are shot. I have seen E10 fuel that was mostly water, it attracts moisture, make sure it burns. Make sure you have compression, under 80# and it'll be dodgy.

 

[GTM®]

See what Steve wrote above, and ECU failure is rare, but does happen on occasion. I've only replaced 5 or 6 in almost 20 years. If you do have to replace it, try a 15M with no lambda/02-sensor as it runs immensely better. I can sell you one with my GTM maps on it if you determine it is the ECU, but I do need to know if it's a hydraulic lifter engine.

Long before Lame Guzzi stole all of the traffic from the MGNOC, Dan Prunske launched his online business by advertising in the newsletter. DPGuzzi.com is his site, relays direct here (copy/paste); dpguzzi.com/relay.htm

 

[EV1100fan]

Hi guys and thanks you all again. Spent the whole day searching with Diag on the ECU, what a great help. You can even fire away on individual injectors. Just my luck a friend showed me a vid of a properly working injector and it puts out a cloud or spray of petrol, where mine only puts out jets of petrol like I showed above. Well that must have to do with pressure, or rather absence of it. So tried to get the pomp-filter combi out of the tank, but what a shitty design this is. Far too much stuff to fit through one opening with sharp edges.
Good news is, the tube from pump to filter had burst !!! That explained why the noise the pump made a the beginning of the season had now deminished to 'normal' pumpsound. So I need to replace the filter, but still I have not managed to get the whole thing out.
What a stupid design. And they want you to do this regularly for maintenance ??? Why does the workshopmanual not tell you HOW to get it out?
Some cursing and swearing to go, but I'll get there. Will let you know what happens if the filter arrives, probably will take a week at least.
Cheers, Erwin

 

[GTM®]

Why does the workshopmanual not tell you HOW to get it out?

Welcome to the wonderful world of Guzzi... "Making mechanics out of riders since 1921." Careful, as they are an addiction.

 

[john zibell]

Be sure to use an all metal fuel filter, KL145 is the filter of choice. Also use submersible fuel injection line from the pump to filter. Oetiker clamps work great for securing the fuel lines and filter. If you don't have access to them, be sure to use screw type fuel injection clamps. They will not pinch the hose like worm clamps. I agree that hole should be bigger. It is a royal pain to get it out, and even worse to get everything back in. Just have patience and don't try to hurry or muscle it out or in. If it doesn't go easy, something is wrong. Wish you luck.

 

[EV1100fan]

Thanks for informing me John, can I ask you how the sequence is to get it back in? Do you assemble the whole unit including tie-wrap on filter and inletfilter on pump, or do you slide the base-with-plastic-clip in the tank first and add components while half in the opening?
I let the pump work in a petrolholding jerrycan, with the same hose cut shorter and guess what, it tore open again. What rubbish.

Does anybody know how to remove the fuelline from the injector?
I found a cir-clip but freeing that and the two 'half moons' does not help.

 

[EV1100fan]

Here's a nice view on an injector spraying out as they should do. Totally different from the jets of petrol my injectors were putting out, from which you can draw the conclusion the pre-pressure is too low, and so the petrolpump/filter combi in the tank suspicious!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a0QZctuSDhxbBO6yJmfgjkzYwg0KIAue/view?usp=drive_web

 

[Vagrant]

Rubbish? It's been living in gas for 15 years!

 

[john zibell]

Thanks for informing me John, can I ask you how the sequence is to get it back in? Do you assemble the whole unit including tie-wrap on filter and inletfilter on pump, or do you slide the base-with-plastic-clip in the tank first and add components while half in the opening?
I let the pump work in a petrolholding jerrycan, with the same hose cut shorter and guess what, it tore open again. What rubbish.

Does anybody know how to remove the fuelline from the injector?
I found a cir-clip but freeing that and the two 'half moons' does not help.

You have to use fuel injection hose that can take the pressure, as well as submersible hose. The composition of hoses are different based on the location they are used. If the hose is the correct type with proper clamps and is splitting I would suspect the fuel pressure may be to high. Not sure how to correct that but pressure in the system should be about 3 bar. As for removing the fuel line, once the clips are removed the fuel line should twist off. It has been on for many years so it could take some effort.

 

[EV1100fan]

The old tube is just past its lifetime, I guess. Then again if the filter is giving too much back pressure, it might snap. So ordering a new filter and a quality hose from my Guzzi dealer in the Netherlands.

Is there no description on how to assemble the pomp-filter-unit back into the tank?
Or a youtube demo? I'll make one if I have to re-invent that wheel. For now, I only know that I had to pull out the pump from its plastic clamp and cut the tie-wrap from the filter, in order to get the whole thing out. Also the level switch is a total mysterie to me. It lay loosely in the tank by its own wire. Crap, what an awful construction this. See sensor laying below left hand corner.

 

[john zibell]

Toss those worm clamps. They can cause problems. see this video for the proper clamp type if you don't have oetiker clamps.

 

[EV1100fan]

Finally received the official original submergable fuelline but after assembly of pomp/filter/pressurevale/sensor it is as good as impossible to reinstall. Mostly because my sensor support bar was broken and I improvised it for the moment cause the sensor (thermistor I learned it to be, an NTC heating up as soon as petrol fails to cool it, hence the glowing of the fueltanklight in the begin) is not my main interest.
Then I read about somebody who decided to mount the filter outside the tank. BRILLIANT solution! Easy to install the assembly back in to the tank, and for the future an easy job to replace the petrol fitler when needed. Why did I not think of that myself? Tomorrow I'll mount the filter against the chassis and we'll see if she'll finally start, or not?!

 

[EV1100fan]

YES it was an easy job to put the filter in the fuel line outside the tank and add a piece of innertube to protect it a little. Did not tie it down as to give more flexibility while manouvering the tank in place.
Tested the injectors first and already from the noise of the pump you could hear the pressure valve engaging and now during a start they sprayed a nice cloud of petrol on my hands!
Then the final test and it started just like that, beautifully running and nice and regularly overturning at stationairy. I am totally happy and will move on to make a small diagnostic video on my channel to share my many surprises like, relais without any indication of their functions, the unneccesary complex installation of that filter in the tank, the lock of the saddle if not greased well inhibiting you from taking it off . The noisy pump announcing trouble. Etc.
THANK YOU ALL for participating. Kind regards from southern France.

 

[john zibell]

I suggest you change the clamps you used. Worm clamps damage the hose. See the previous image I posted.