Folks, more insanity that I am having to deal with amongst this pandemic. He threatened to post it, so I'm doing so here so I can post a logical rebuttal. I am at a loss here... posting for my own sanity.
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 8:45 AM, Thomas A wrote:
I received the muffler for my 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge today. When I put it on it stuck way out like you accidentally shipped a v7 exhaust. When I tried to put the side case on it hit the muffler and was about 4 to 6 inches from the latch. I wondered if you designed the bracket to go on the inside of the mount. I didn’t think that going in an inch or so on the inside of the mount could compensate for five inches. When I eased it over it yanked on the outlet pipe on the pre muffler and made the whole Pre muffler torque back and forth. I hope the perfect slip fit on the outlet pipe is still tight and that the pre muffler isn’t the broken or stressed. You’ve been around for years and I’ve read forums that you participate in. That’s how I found you. Please call me. Tom A
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 8:49 AM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Sorry to hear this. Please send photos. We cannot take or make phone calls, we are online only. Happy to be of help here. We'll get it resolved for you.
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:35 AM, sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Tom, not sure if you got our reply... Please send photos. We cannot take or make phone calls, we are online only. Happy to be of help here. We'll get it resolved for you.
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:17 PM, Thomas A wrote:
It is obviously not for a Norge. The case isn’t close to going on. The pipe sticks out too far and it is to high. I took the bad pipe off. Would you like me to put it back on and hold the case up against the bike with one hand and take a photo with the other hand? Maybe I can get my wife to hold a ruler up to it? Are you going to design your first Norge pipe from my photos? Do you want a photo of the stock muffler? I would like one of your pipes on my Norge but I’m ready to ride now. I need my bags. I’ll put your bad one back on and take pictures (I don’t understand why because you know what you shipped) and then put the stock one back on so I can go riding. Then maybe you can tell me how I ended up with the wrong pipe and if you can send me one for a Norge with bags and center stand.
Thanks for responding. I’ll go swap them out right now.
----
On Apr 7, 2020 at 1:29 pm sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Hi Thomas, a photo of the stock muffler next to ours on the floor will do.
We have two versions, the 2V Norge, and the 4V Norge.
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 8:45 PM, Thomas A wrote:
Hi Todd, her are the photos you requested.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Thomas A wrote:
Hi Todd. Did you notice the photo of the muffler on your website has a tall bracket - it has three different holes on it so you can adjust it.
----
On Apr 8, 2020 at 9:39 am sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Thanks for the pics Tom. Did you try mounting the muffler to the inside of the mount instead of outside? It is the correct muffler and we've sold quite a few with no complaints at all. The picture you sent is the old bracket design. The holes are cosmetic and not used for adjustment. I've replaced it with the new version. You have the correct muffler we make for you bike.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:47 AM, Thomas A wrote:
Are you reading my texts? The first thing I told you was I tried to put it on the inside and that it didn’t want to go and that it was twisting the pre muffler and that moving it in an inch didn’t work. You can see in the photos I sent you that it sticks out 6 inches and that it goes up almost to the top of the wheel so it is to high.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 10:04 AM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
I sure am. I believe both the 1200-2V & 1200-4V come with an metal extension on the stock mufflers that allow you to move the muffler downward to clear the bag. We build to the exact spec of the stock muffler. If you don't like it, and you haven't run the bike, we'll take a return less shipping. Let us know.
----
On April 8, 2020 at 10:08 AM, Thomas A wrote:
Are you out of business? Are you just sending out what ever you have in stock and then insist it is the right one? I do not know what you are trying to do but you have my money and this pipe is wrong and you have the pictures. But even after you looked at the photos of the swept up pipe that shows there is no room for the luggage you are playing. If you are playing this game I now understand why you are no longer accepting phone calls. I need my luggage. Please send me a pre-paid return label and I trust you will refund my money when you receive this v7 pipe back. Or refund half of the money and I’ll keep this v7 muffler and run it when I don’t need luggage. I’ll have to swap out mufflers every time.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 10:48 AM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Tom, please stop. I do not have the time for this. Please return it to the address below. You have the correct muffler. We have sold many of them with no issues. We will refund your money.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
We just confirmed what you were shipped, is in fact correct. Do you have the stock colostomy bag in place? If so, the muffler should easy fit onto the inside of the bracket. If you need it in the low position, you would use a bracket like this one; https://images.app.goo.gl/P4E4kdkS67dTR4Pw9 - then it would go to the inside of the hanger bracket, same as it does with the stock muffler. Let me know if you want to return it. Please package it how it was sent if so.
----
On April 8, 2020 at 1:35 PM, Thomas A wrote:
I just confirmed that what you shipped is in fact incorrect. I’ve told you twice in previous e-mails that moving to the inside of the bracket does not move the muffler in the required five inches in order to line up the side case with its locking mechanism. The photos show that the muffler angles outward about six inches.
You suggested that if I need the muffler lower so that it would clear the side case, that I can use a bracket that would lower it. You sent an example of a Mistral muffler with an extended bracket to lower it in order to fit on a Norge with luggage.
I ordered a muffler from you so it would go on my Norge with luggage with out any modification. A muffler that requires an extension bracket is not custom made for that bike. If I wanted a generic muffler that requires modification I would have bought a generic reverse cone muffler from E-Bay for $200.
If a muffler needs to be modified to fit a Norge then that means it is incorrect for a Norge.
I’m pushing 70 years of age and this is the worse case of bait and switch I have ever experienced.
Your company appears to be so unscrupulous that I am concerned that if I send the muffler back there is a good chance that you would claim you never received it even if I use registered mail.
I fell for your unsolicited e-mail asking for business so your workers could continue working and feed their children during this National crisis and then you take advantage of your customers compassion by unloading your surplus inventory.
If you sell the wrong muffler to a customer but it still goes on the customers motorcycle the customer would be happy because it sounds good, even though it doesn’t look quite right. If I didn’t have luggage I would have been happy with the wrong muffler even though it didn’t fit quite right because I like the sound But for you to expect a Norge owner with luggage to keep a muffler built for a different bike is ludicrous. I guess you figured it wouldn’t hurt to try. If it doesn’t fly with the customer we will have the customer pay to return incorrect muffler.
We’ve been arguing because you think I’ll run around with out luggage if you keep repeating “It’s the correct muffler, we’ve been making them for a long time with out complaints even though you have to modify the bracket to lower it”.
Good luck selling your surplus parts to future customers. You will have success as long as you avoid customers with Norges.
If you would like I am willing to share our correspondence and photos with Moto Guzzi forums and we could get opinions from the Moto Guzzi enthusiasts whether or not I should expect to modify a muffler that I buy from you.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 2:10 PM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
The muffler is 100% correct. Return it as previously stated, you will be refunded. We've been in business almost 20 years and stand behind our products 110%. Send the tracking # and you will be fully refunded when we receive it back in the same condition it was sent.
----
On April 8, 2020 at 2:42 PM, Thomas A wrote:
You told me to get a bracket extension in order to clear the side case. That is a modification. That is not 100% correct. You’ve been in business almost 20 years and your Norge muffler needs an extended bracket to clear the side bag. You didn’t extend the bracket in 20 years. You say you stand behind your product but when you send a muffler that needs needs modification you expect the customer to pay for your mistake by paying for the return shipping.
Then you give yourself an out for when I return it. You previously said that I could return it if I didn’t start the bike or something to that effect.
Did you know that people buy your muffler for that v8 sound you advertise? Who in their right mind wouldn’t start their motorcycle as soon as the muffler was bolted on to see what it sounds like and then ride it to see what it sounds like?
Why would I check the fit of the side cases prior to riding it. I didn’t need to check the fit of the side cases because Todd has been doing this for 20 years. Of course it fits. That’s why I paid almost $600.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 3:47 PM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
This is the Guzzi stock part (# 977798) - you can see it here; af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=46443 -- if you want to keep the muffler, we will order it and send it to you free of charge.
If you want to return it, we ask that is repacked as it arrived, and not scratched or dented. On occasion, people toss things in shipping boxes and they arrive damaged and not re-sellable.
We are not able to refund money if you want to keep the muffler.
Let us know what you want to do.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 5:08 PM, Thomas A wrote:
Thank you, I love the sound of your muffler. I hope the part you are sending me will make the muffler clear the side bag. Please order the extension bracket tomorrow. I’ll put it on as soon as it arrives and I’ll let you know if that fixes the problem or not.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 5:48 PM, Thomas A wrote:
There is no extension required on the muffler bracket as it comes from the factory. But your muffler needs one.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 6:20 PM, Thomas A wrote:
That extension bracket you showed me does not come with the stock muffler. On the photo you showed me somebody put an extension on a stock muffler even though it doesn’t need it and then took a picture of it. Why are you showing me that?
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Thomas A wrote:
Do you have your years mixed up again? My Norge is a 2013.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:25 PM, sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Welcome. Below is a photo of the stock Norge 8V muffler *with* the bracket on it as delivered from the factory. Please reply if you have it or not.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:34 PM, Thomas A wrote:
The 2013 Moto Guzzi fits correctly with the stock bracket. I sent you the photos but I’ll send it to you again.
----
On Apr 14, 2020, at 11:13 AM, Thomas A wrote:
Morning Todd, I went on a ride with the Norge Saturday. Your pipe made me smile all day even with the colostomy bag still on the bike.
----
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 8:51 pm Thomas A wrote:
Hi Todd, I received the bracket extension and clamp today and just wanted to thank you for investigating and solving the luggage problem. (Haven’t tried it on yet but I have my fingers crossed)
I apologize for being upset when the luggage wouldn’t go on. Here’s what happened. I’ve wanted your muffler for over a year. When I received it I wanted you to make it fit and I didn’t want to send it back. All the other muffler manufacturers put a quiet baffle in the muffler. Then if you want a little volume you have to take out the baffle and then it is too loud and that could effect the way it runs if you do not have a tuner. I knew yours was the only muffler I wanted on my motorcycle. It sounds perfect. That’s why I refused to give up. Thanks again and sorry again.
---- THE END ----
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 8:45 AM, Thomas A wrote:
I received the muffler for my 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge today. When I put it on it stuck way out like you accidentally shipped a v7 exhaust. When I tried to put the side case on it hit the muffler and was about 4 to 6 inches from the latch. I wondered if you designed the bracket to go on the inside of the mount. I didn’t think that going in an inch or so on the inside of the mount could compensate for five inches. When I eased it over it yanked on the outlet pipe on the pre muffler and made the whole Pre muffler torque back and forth. I hope the perfect slip fit on the outlet pipe is still tight and that the pre muffler isn’t the broken or stressed. You’ve been around for years and I’ve read forums that you participate in. That’s how I found you. Please call me. Tom A
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 8:49 AM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Sorry to hear this. Please send photos. We cannot take or make phone calls, we are online only. Happy to be of help here. We'll get it resolved for you.
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:35 AM, sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Tom, not sure if you got our reply... Please send photos. We cannot take or make phone calls, we are online only. Happy to be of help here. We'll get it resolved for you.
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 1:17 PM, Thomas A wrote:
It is obviously not for a Norge. The case isn’t close to going on. The pipe sticks out too far and it is to high. I took the bad pipe off. Would you like me to put it back on and hold the case up against the bike with one hand and take a photo with the other hand? Maybe I can get my wife to hold a ruler up to it? Are you going to design your first Norge pipe from my photos? Do you want a photo of the stock muffler? I would like one of your pipes on my Norge but I’m ready to ride now. I need my bags. I’ll put your bad one back on and take pictures (I don’t understand why because you know what you shipped) and then put the stock one back on so I can go riding. Then maybe you can tell me how I ended up with the wrong pipe and if you can send me one for a Norge with bags and center stand.
Thanks for responding. I’ll go swap them out right now.
----
On Apr 7, 2020 at 1:29 pm sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Hi Thomas, a photo of the stock muffler next to ours on the floor will do.
We have two versions, the 2V Norge, and the 4V Norge.
----
On Apr 7, 2020, at 8:45 PM, Thomas A wrote:
Hi Todd, her are the photos you requested.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Thomas A wrote:
Hi Todd. Did you notice the photo of the muffler on your website has a tall bracket - it has three different holes on it so you can adjust it.
----
On Apr 8, 2020 at 9:39 am sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Thanks for the pics Tom. Did you try mounting the muffler to the inside of the mount instead of outside? It is the correct muffler and we've sold quite a few with no complaints at all. The picture you sent is the old bracket design. The holes are cosmetic and not used for adjustment. I've replaced it with the new version. You have the correct muffler we make for you bike.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:47 AM, Thomas A wrote:
Are you reading my texts? The first thing I told you was I tried to put it on the inside and that it didn’t want to go and that it was twisting the pre muffler and that moving it in an inch didn’t work. You can see in the photos I sent you that it sticks out 6 inches and that it goes up almost to the top of the wheel so it is to high.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 10:04 AM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
I sure am. I believe both the 1200-2V & 1200-4V come with an metal extension on the stock mufflers that allow you to move the muffler downward to clear the bag. We build to the exact spec of the stock muffler. If you don't like it, and you haven't run the bike, we'll take a return less shipping. Let us know.
----
On April 8, 2020 at 10:08 AM, Thomas A wrote:
Are you out of business? Are you just sending out what ever you have in stock and then insist it is the right one? I do not know what you are trying to do but you have my money and this pipe is wrong and you have the pictures. But even after you looked at the photos of the swept up pipe that shows there is no room for the luggage you are playing. If you are playing this game I now understand why you are no longer accepting phone calls. I need my luggage. Please send me a pre-paid return label and I trust you will refund my money when you receive this v7 pipe back. Or refund half of the money and I’ll keep this v7 muffler and run it when I don’t need luggage. I’ll have to swap out mufflers every time.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 10:48 AM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Tom, please stop. I do not have the time for this. Please return it to the address below. You have the correct muffler. We have sold many of them with no issues. We will refund your money.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 11:27 AM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
We just confirmed what you were shipped, is in fact correct. Do you have the stock colostomy bag in place? If so, the muffler should easy fit onto the inside of the bracket. If you need it in the low position, you would use a bracket like this one; https://images.app.goo.gl/P4E4kdkS67dTR4Pw9 - then it would go to the inside of the hanger bracket, same as it does with the stock muffler. Let me know if you want to return it. Please package it how it was sent if so.
----
On April 8, 2020 at 1:35 PM, Thomas A wrote:
I just confirmed that what you shipped is in fact incorrect. I’ve told you twice in previous e-mails that moving to the inside of the bracket does not move the muffler in the required five inches in order to line up the side case with its locking mechanism. The photos show that the muffler angles outward about six inches.
You suggested that if I need the muffler lower so that it would clear the side case, that I can use a bracket that would lower it. You sent an example of a Mistral muffler with an extended bracket to lower it in order to fit on a Norge with luggage.
I ordered a muffler from you so it would go on my Norge with luggage with out any modification. A muffler that requires an extension bracket is not custom made for that bike. If I wanted a generic muffler that requires modification I would have bought a generic reverse cone muffler from E-Bay for $200.
If a muffler needs to be modified to fit a Norge then that means it is incorrect for a Norge.
I’m pushing 70 years of age and this is the worse case of bait and switch I have ever experienced.
Your company appears to be so unscrupulous that I am concerned that if I send the muffler back there is a good chance that you would claim you never received it even if I use registered mail.
I fell for your unsolicited e-mail asking for business so your workers could continue working and feed their children during this National crisis and then you take advantage of your customers compassion by unloading your surplus inventory.
If you sell the wrong muffler to a customer but it still goes on the customers motorcycle the customer would be happy because it sounds good, even though it doesn’t look quite right. If I didn’t have luggage I would have been happy with the wrong muffler even though it didn’t fit quite right because I like the sound But for you to expect a Norge owner with luggage to keep a muffler built for a different bike is ludicrous. I guess you figured it wouldn’t hurt to try. If it doesn’t fly with the customer we will have the customer pay to return incorrect muffler.
We’ve been arguing because you think I’ll run around with out luggage if you keep repeating “It’s the correct muffler, we’ve been making them for a long time with out complaints even though you have to modify the bracket to lower it”.
Good luck selling your surplus parts to future customers. You will have success as long as you avoid customers with Norges.
If you would like I am willing to share our correspondence and photos with Moto Guzzi forums and we could get opinions from the Moto Guzzi enthusiasts whether or not I should expect to modify a muffler that I buy from you.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 2:10 PM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
The muffler is 100% correct. Return it as previously stated, you will be refunded. We've been in business almost 20 years and stand behind our products 110%. Send the tracking # and you will be fully refunded when we receive it back in the same condition it was sent.
----
On April 8, 2020 at 2:42 PM, Thomas A wrote:
You told me to get a bracket extension in order to clear the side case. That is a modification. That is not 100% correct. You’ve been in business almost 20 years and your Norge muffler needs an extended bracket to clear the side bag. You didn’t extend the bracket in 20 years. You say you stand behind your product but when you send a muffler that needs needs modification you expect the customer to pay for your mistake by paying for the return shipping.
Then you give yourself an out for when I return it. You previously said that I could return it if I didn’t start the bike or something to that effect.
Did you know that people buy your muffler for that v8 sound you advertise? Who in their right mind wouldn’t start their motorcycle as soon as the muffler was bolted on to see what it sounds like and then ride it to see what it sounds like?
Why would I check the fit of the side cases prior to riding it. I didn’t need to check the fit of the side cases because Todd has been doing this for 20 years. Of course it fits. That’s why I paid almost $600.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 3:47 PM sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
This is the Guzzi stock part (# 977798) - you can see it here; af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=46443 -- if you want to keep the muffler, we will order it and send it to you free of charge.
If you want to return it, we ask that is repacked as it arrived, and not scratched or dented. On occasion, people toss things in shipping boxes and they arrive damaged and not re-sellable.
We are not able to refund money if you want to keep the muffler.
Let us know what you want to do.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 5:08 PM, Thomas A wrote:
Thank you, I love the sound of your muffler. I hope the part you are sending me will make the muffler clear the side bag. Please order the extension bracket tomorrow. I’ll put it on as soon as it arrives and I’ll let you know if that fixes the problem or not.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 5:48 PM, Thomas A wrote:
There is no extension required on the muffler bracket as it comes from the factory. But your muffler needs one.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 6:20 PM, Thomas A wrote:
That extension bracket you showed me does not come with the stock muffler. On the photo you showed me somebody put an extension on a stock muffler even though it doesn’t need it and then took a picture of it. Why are you showing me that?
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Thomas A wrote:
Do you have your years mixed up again? My Norge is a 2013.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:25 PM, sales@gtmotocycles wrote:
Welcome. Below is a photo of the stock Norge 8V muffler *with* the bracket on it as delivered from the factory. Please reply if you have it or not.
----
On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:34 PM, Thomas A wrote:
The 2013 Moto Guzzi fits correctly with the stock bracket. I sent you the photos but I’ll send it to you again.
----
On Apr 14, 2020, at 11:13 AM, Thomas A wrote:
Morning Todd, I went on a ride with the Norge Saturday. Your pipe made me smile all day even with the colostomy bag still on the bike.
----
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 8:51 pm Thomas A wrote:
Hi Todd, I received the bracket extension and clamp today and just wanted to thank you for investigating and solving the luggage problem. (Haven’t tried it on yet but I have my fingers crossed)
I apologize for being upset when the luggage wouldn’t go on. Here’s what happened. I’ve wanted your muffler for over a year. When I received it I wanted you to make it fit and I didn’t want to send it back. All the other muffler manufacturers put a quiet baffle in the muffler. Then if you want a little volume you have to take out the baffle and then it is too loud and that could effect the way it runs if you do not have a tuner. I knew yours was the only muffler I wanted on my motorcycle. It sounds perfect. That’s why I refused to give up. Thanks again and sorry again.
---- THE END ----
Last edited:
As a complete Guzzi "newbie" the information/knowledge on this site is invaluable and the willingness shown by many to help the "community" is awesome.