No-start/battery warning

[Ray1150]

Thanks guys, I'm ordering one. Here is the link if you're in Blighty.
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/37065303 ... pla&crdt=0

Basically from M&P in Swansea £60 + del.

This is their own site, lots of useful info.
http://motobatt.com/

 

[Barenekd]

I had a Deka AGM in my Enfield. I loved it. It was always read. Never needed a charger on it.
Bare

 

[Nordicnorm]

My '07 Breva 1100. several occasional no start situations this spring. Battery (4 year old Motocross) loadtested today. Checks ok, but ordered new anyways.
I usually have a difference in voltage of 0.5-0.6V between the dash and the battery posts. Typically 12,78V at the battery and 12.1-12.2V on the dash. Running I see a similar difference between the two readings. Problem/no problem??
Any insight appreciated.

 

[GTM®]

Have you checked all of the leads for corrosion including under the starter cover ground bolt? The Breva 1100 doesn't seem to be a victim of the relay jumper issue, but it's one you might want to visit if the battery doesn't solve the problem (see; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/b11-norge-startus-interruptus-the-mph-solution.7161/). Most lead acid/AGM batts sit ~12.8V fully charged these days. There is a discrepancy between the battery terminals and ECU (always reads less), possibly because of the resistance of the wiring and connections, etc.

 

[Nordicnorm]

Thank you Todd.
A very informative link. Connections sprayed with an anti corrosion product from the marine industry, after loosening them up. New battery installed. All I can do is wait and see. Had the bike for one year, and this "no start" issue never occurred last year, but several times this spring, so I am optimistic.

 

[Nordicnorm]

Didn't take long to fail again. 30 miles of trailering today, after an hour of cool down (hot day), and checking fuses etc.
Started fine when home. Guess the ride in the trailer cooled things down nicely! I will look into the MPH solution.
My best running Guzzi ever (since '82), but only when it starts!

 

[GuzziMoto]

The few times my Griso did not want to start (happened after I replaced the battery with a lithium battery) I just bump started it. Never thought to trailer it.

 

[Nordicnorm]

Traced to a weak ground connection, duly repaired (and posted here), I have not had the issue again, in spite of lots of riding since.

 

[wait2b]

need help
was riding the 2012 stelvio ntx on the weekend stopped to check light and tried to restate but
what occurred was a click noise. Removed battery and check some of wiring did not find
anything that appeared as a problem reinstalled battery tried restarting, click again. Removed
battery cables and cleaned as best I could and reinstalled cables, still click on restart. Checked
posts again clean a little, tried restate and started. Got on the road to get back to the house bike
ran terrible, missing and using fuel at a level of 9 liters per 100k. The bike finally would not
continue running and stopped, before that the mileage speed on dash showed "0" and no other
functions indicated. Tried to restart and click again, would not restate al all. One item that I
noticed upon checking some of the other wiring was that on the power commander fueling system
two of the wires had come loose and were not connected which I think caused the fueling issue?
Had a two truck take the bike to the house and tried to restart but click again. Put the charger
on the battery and let it charge and reconnected the two wires on the power commander. Tried
to start the bike about an hour later and it started but idled at 2,000 rpm, turned off and restarted
and it idled at 1,400 which was still too high, connected charger while bike was running and the
idle was at 1,100?

This is the second time that this occurred, once last year
after which I removed battery had it load tested which was accepted and reinstalled batter and
bike ran good for that whole year.
Need advise, is the battery a piece of crap or is there an issue with the alternator, voltage regulator
or something else?
Thanks

 

[abbienormal]

When agm batteries came out I worked at a Honda dealer. We were told about letting them soak an hour prior to charging before use. I noticed the Yuasa I just purchased said 2 hours in the instructions. (Yes I read the directions!) also, having sold them for years, my take is you cannot tell the difference between a made in USA Yuasa and one made in Japan. Normally if they were available at a lower cost they were made in Taiwan and the life expectancy was a lot less. Bear in mind my experience was over 20 years ago but I always try to buy the better ones in my mind. The original in my 1400 did not show where it was from when at 2 years old I had to replace it.

 

[GTM®]

Set the dashboard to voltage, and that should answer most of your questions. 90% of these type of issues are due to a bad battery. Lifespan of most AGM batteries are 2-3 years. Standing voltage on a fully charged battery is 12.8v, but that doesn't mean it's good. I have several options in the online Store; https://gtmotocycles.com/search?type=product&q=battery

We'll be watching.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Just replaced my standard 16CCA battery with a physically larger 20CCA one and yet to run it as the install involved turing the 90 degrees in the case on order to achieve fit.
Solenoids jiggled around alongside and woven nylon strap used to secure in place.

And yes, a CARC Bellagio will not fit a 20CCA battery transversely between the frame rails but thankfully the battery box is large enough to shoehorn one in longitudally.

Chris.

 

[Kevin.NZ]

Do you mean 200CCA

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Why wouldn’t you just replace the battery with the correct designated size for that bike instead of mucking it all up?

There is no appreciable difference between a 180 CCA battery and a 200 CCA battery other than physical size.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Do you mean 200CCA

Hi John,
Sorry for the confusion as I mean 20AH and the old battery was rated at 16AH.
CCA's I am not sure of.
And Scott, it's no trouble realigning the battery as the box is huge.
This is all part of getting reliable starting, and before it gets into 'we'll have you done this and this,' please accept that I have and replacing an old battery with a larger one if you have ever had startus interuptus can only benefit.
Chris.
New battery pictured.
P.S. just checked the specifications and its a 310CCA.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

This is all part of getting reliable starting, and before it gets into 'we'll have you done this and this,' please accept that I have and replacing an old battery with a larger one if you have ever had startus interuptus can only benefit.

Your logic is flawed. You seemingly don’t understand electricity as it pertains to batteries.

A higher AH battery will do nothing to overcome the inherent resistance which develops in the starter pathway, what you call “startus interruptus”.

The simple and correct solution to this common problem is not a “bigger battery”. It’s a more logical and cleaner wiring setup than the original path.

MPH Cycles sells a “plug and play” wiring patch to do this very thing.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Ah Scott, as I said I don't want to get into what has been done to fix starting problems but I understand that greater amp hours equates to a longer lasting battery and generally delivers greater cold cranking amps.
And since the old battery is no longer serviceable I agreed with two extremely knowledgeable motorcycle mechanics one of which is an auto electrician and the other a life long Moto Guzzi mechanic to get a battery which is larger.
This is the last thing in a line of fixes for interrupted starting issues that I have had and to date everything has worked, so if my understanding is flawed then I will stick to it but thanks for trying to point it out.
Chris.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Given you are in Sidney, you sound like you are describing Pete Roper south of you in Bungedore.

That’s fine I suppose as I don’t care one way or the other about the guy, but the site owner, Todd (GTM) does not have a fondness for the man.

I too am a lifelong motorcycle mechanic with my own shop, as are several other members here, so you might take that into your consideration.

The whole purpose of these forums, are to offer proven solutions to common and uncommon issues. The starting issue engineering deficiencies are well know and fully understood and the established solution works because it bypasses the attempt to push voltage through a very long and poorly designed circuit.

Unfortunately, increasing the battery AH size, and improperly mounting the battery sideways, is atypical at best.

My philosophy is one of determining the real problem and to use a real solution. I don’t do “jury rig” repairs.

So if that’s the kind of information you tend to shun, we’ll then I don’t know what to tell you.

I’m glad you feel that you have your motorcycle repaired. It’s your bike.
——————————————————

For those who are looking for the real solution:

 

[Chris Wilson]

Yep, already done all of that, along with cleaning corrosion off cables and terminals and replacing the starter motor due to the leading brush shorting out and it not worth the effort to disassemble to fix.
But back a point you seem to be trying to make, what is the issue with mounting the battery longitudinally?
I mean even the manufacturers lay claim to the benefits of being able to be mounted in any position.
A quote from Yuasa who I assume know their stuff "AGM batteries, on the other hand, can be mounted in any orientation because the liquid is sealed inside the battery. "
So kinda curious as to why doing so would be a 'muck up?'

Chris

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Not so much as a much up as an inherent design issue. It’s true you CAN orient a AGM battery in a sideways direction, although if you’ve ever seen the inside of an AGM battery, the plates are not normally reinforced in the sideways direction. They are reinforced to withstand shock and vibration in a vertical axis line.

When you lay it on it’s side, the plates are unsupported on the bottom so now, the AGM sacks and plates, take stresses where they were not designed to do so.

This is why batteries are made specifically for those orientations, and they come with additional gusseting and stabilizing components.

It won’t affect you probably, but there is a reason for everything in the design of a motorcycle component.

For me, if I need a horizontal placement of a battery, then it’s going to be a Lithium Iron Phosphate cell battery.

That’s just me.

Peace out!