No Start.

[Ste]

I'm humbly returning after a long absence, hoping someone out there can help me figure out a no-start 2014 cali touring with 22k and Todd's awesome ECU flash/PCV/AT fueling. I'm hundreds of miles away from any authorized service (w/PADS). Basically on my own. Take pity.

Here's the deal:

Went for a nice long ride. Ran perfectly. Parked it a few days. Came back, turned the key, all good. Display came up. Fuel pump started whirring. Hit the starter. Nothing. No error on the dash display. No relay or solenoid clicking. Nothing. ...maybe a circling vulture taunting me overhead.

Here's the sad state of my diagnosis:

New battery
Kickstand switch good
Starter solenoid good
Relay good
Continuity from relay to solenoid good
Start/kill switch good. (Continuity good on wires to ECU, but no 5v signal from pinout to switch)
GTM tool showed no codes.
Reflashed the ECU without any error.
Fall sensor seems ok. (Confirmed continuity and 5v to the ECU. The audible fuel pump engagement with ignition on position suggests it's not the problem)
Tried my second key. Energized the display as normal. No prompt for code. (Suspect the dash immobilizer not the issue)
OEM alarm is still connected but was programmed out to manual mode long ago. No red light or other sign of life. (Is there any chance it could return from the dead and immobilize the bike?)

I'm hoping someone smart can chime in with an idea. There is a serious risk I'll part it out given I have no reasonable authorized service options here in Northern New Mexico.

Help me save her from a sad and slow Ebay dismemberment. She deserves to ride again.

 

[GTM®]

Here's the sad state of my diagnosis:

So no major words like URGENT SERVICE or ECU (Unplugged) on the speedo? You didn't mention clutch switch. Check that if you haven't. From there, and even though you *think* it's a new battery, check standing voltage with a DVM, then key on, and then when you push the button. Post again.

 

[Ste]

Thanks very much for the quick response. Really appreciate it.

No "URGENT SERVICE" or "SERVICE" notices on the speedo -- except when I created one by pulling the relay. I cleared that. All normal on the display.

I replaced the clutch switch a year ago. I was operating under the presumption that even if it went bad again it shouldn't immobilize the bike while in neutral. Guess it won't hurt to check. Where's the best place to test from? The ECU?

New battery is charged and cranks the starter hard when I bypass the relay. I put the Fluke on it and it's at 12v off, on, and with the starter switch engaged. No drop in voltage.

Thanks again for the virtual lifeline.

 

[GTM®]

Just noticed... my bet is your alarm/disable. Likely your problem if still in place.

 

[William H.]

FYI
If you don't have the alarm plug/bypass for the harness you can buy one at AF1.

 

[scott_m]

I concur with Todd (GTM®).

I think your alarm / Ignition disable function has somehow been re-engaged.

Check that first.

 

[Ste]

I concur with Todd (GTM®).

I think your alarm / Ignition disable function has somehow been re-engaged.

Check that first.

Thanks to all for chiming in with your thoughts.

I completely shunted out the disabled alarm with the factory provided plug shown above. (Can't believe still had it.)

No start.

Display still reads normal.

Running out of ideas.

 

[GTM®]

Running out of ideas.

If you are seeing no errors, it will be something simple. Can't be of help without seeing the bike, sorry. Things like this are nearly impossible to diagnose via the internet.

 

[Ste]

Understand.

I’m going to try to get another set of eyes on it to recheck my work.

I’ve ordered a new tilt sensor. (Couldn’t figure out how to bypass it without a resistor.) I believe that may the only other circuit that could cause something like this.

I’m starting to think it’s possible it could be the ECU. I know that’s extremely rare, but it would explain why I’m not seeing ~5v on a known good wire to the starter switch.

Thanks again.

 

[scott_m]

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

Bike does NOTHING if you push start button.

If you bypass start button and put 12V directly to the starter solenoid, the bike cranks over? Will it start then?

 

[scott_m]

Understand.

I’m going to try to get another set of eyes on it to recheck my work.

I’ve ordered a new tilt sensor. (Couldn’t figure out how to bypass it without a resistor.) I believe that may the only other circuit that could cause something like this.

I’m starting to think it’s possible it could be the ECU. I know that’s extremely rare, but it would explain why I’m not seeing ~5v on a known good wire to the starter switch.

Thanks again.

What wire are you expecting 5V on and what gives you this idea please?

 

[Ste]

Thanks for asking that. Despite my YouTube diploma in electronics, I've always had trouble with the 5v ECU concepts necessary to work on most anything these days. Would rather get back to the seals on my leaky '72 Eldorado.

Based on my read of the wiring diagram, I think it would be the Pink/Brown (Rosa/Marrone) from the thumb switch starter pin-out (#4) to ECU pin-out 58. But I could be wrong. (My 60-year-old eyes are burnt trying to follow those fine lines on the schematics only to find out I'd been looking at a later EURO 4 version with some different wire colors and numbering.)

Anyway: My shop manual says: " Pin out: 4: voltage + 5V"

I assume since it's just a switch without a sensor and they say "+" 5v (no balanced line sensor resistance), that voltage is there to signal the ECU to trip the starter relay.

Or not. Really out of my league here. Sincerely appreciate your help.

 

[scott_m]

The HIGH RESOLUTION wiring diagram is available in the DOWNLOADS section. You have to be a contributing member to gain access so go to DONATE and kick in a few bucks and become a supporter.

I think you are mistaken. I do not see where 5V is supposed to be coming across that wire. I need to look at the service manual closely and I will repost.

So...if I am reading the service manual correctly. From the pinout location, on pinout #4, when the start button is pressed, then you will see 5V on pinout location 4. That is how I read the manual.

However, I still am trying to get an answer to my question to you.

If you turn on the ignition and place the engine kill switch in the run position, if you directly send 12V to the solenoid or directly to the starter itself, will the motorcycle crank over and start?

If it does, then there is an issue with your start switch.

If you send power directly to either of these locations, what happens? This is the information I am looking for please.

 

[Ste]

Thanks for staying with me on this Scott. Appreciate your expertise.

To answer your question:

If I power the ignition up and bypass the start switch by sending 12volts to the solenoid, the bike will turn over (but not start). Starter, solenoid, relay, all good.

I’ve opened the start switch on the handlebar to inspect it for corrosion and function. I tested continuity at the switch and at the ECU. It does/does open and close the circuit at switch pin out 4 and the ECU pin out.

But does nothing otherwise.

 

[Rickhinnz]

Had exactly the same problem recently.
Turned out to be the starter motor / solenoid combo

Replaced with an identical starter from an V7 and fired straight up

Covered in another thread.

California 1400 touring 2016 model not starting​

 

[Ste]

thanks rick. happy for you, but was hoping it was something that would relate to my issue. starter solenoid all good in my case.

enjoy your summer riding season!

 

[Rickhinnz]

Silly question, have you tried removing the starter motor and testing it off the bike?

 

[Ste]

yup. still strong. works on and off the motor. thanks.

 

[Rickhinnz]

Bother. The only other thing that I saw in my case was corrosion on the relay associated with wire feeding the starter solenoid.
But doesn't sound like you have that issue.

You most probably have already checked but if you remove the relay and use a multimeter to the socket where you removed the relay do you see the voltage there when you press the starter button?.

Hate problems like this.

Then working backwards checking the wiring harness to ECU pin.
Constantly chasing your tail.

 

[Ste]

No voltage at the relay socket. That‘s supposed to come from the ECU pin out 69 which trips the relay. Relay tested good.

Starting to suspect the ECU, but I’m not going to deal with that. Pretty sure I’d need to find a dealer with a PADS and probably Todd if I wanted to restore the fueling.

I’ll keep banging away at all the wires, switches, and sensors again for a couple more days until I consider parting it out. Life is too short to spend it chasing down electronic faults.

Too bad you’re so far away. It’s got a nice set of mistral slip ons.