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Norge 8V recall

Discussion in 'BNS12 Chat & Tech' started by RJVB, May 6, 2011.

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  1. RJVB

    RJVB GT Reference

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    I just learned of a recall that's been issued for the Norge 8V. A small number is supposedly affected by a possible problem of what Piaggio translated into French as a "flasque moteur". I understand it must be one of the engine walls.

    A friend's new N8V was apparently affected, and lost all engine oil after only 350km (his previous N2V had the engine rebuilt after an oil pump failure...). He's waiting for a new engine to be installed.

    Recall info:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Thanks René, I'll sticky this topic.
     
  3. pauldaytona

    pauldaytona Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    well nothing on the service moto guzzi website
     
  4. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    [​IMG]

    Yes, a couple of welch plugs have fallen out! God's teeth. It's the end of the world!!!

    Look, the factory has acted quickly to deal with ANY machines that may be affected. Can we not have this turned in to another huge, paranoid rant about how the bikes are awful and nobody in their right mind would buy one.

    Jesus wept! Compared to some of the other recalls other manufacturers have this is a thorough and diligent response. No doubt it won't be good enough though.

    http://www.servicemotoguzzi.com/public/ ... 5-2011.pdf
     
  5. RJVB

    RJVB GT Reference

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    Erm, Pete?

    Who's shrieking?

    I just posted a note about something serious enough to get MG to issue a recall without fussing about it for months. Over here no one is wailing about it, many who got the letter wonder whether it's serious at all. If it weren't for the one mate of mine who actually test-rode the issue and lubrificated the local beltway with almost 5 liters of fresh 10W60, we'd probably waving it off as something that could wait until the next 10k service...

    So, according to you, MG overreacted for once, also in issueing a new engine to said mate? :?
     
  6. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    No Rene. I'm just trying to short circuit the usual hysterical response that occurs as soon as there is ANY reported fault, real or imagined, with any new Guzzi model.

    Sorry. That to me seems to be guesswork and rumor-mongering. How about asking if anybody with an inside line if they have seen any information regarding a recall on the Norge 8V, (And it applies to more than just Norges.) rather than just posting up a wild guess about 'One of the engine walls'. That would imply crankcase and a casting failure WOULD be a BIG concern. But it ISN'T a casting failure it is a couple of welch plugs that block holes machined into the sump spacer that HAVE to be there to allow access for tooling to drill galleries in the spacer internals.

    So, Why have the plugs dropped out? Most likely because the slot drill used to machine the holes was installed incorrectly in the mill head or possibly it, (The tool.) was made inaccurately leading to a run-out issue of a couple of thou. This wouldn't seem be a problem when installing the plugs but heating the alloy of the spacer might, in some cases, cause the plug to shift or drop out as occured with your mates bike. and yes, it must of been very scary and obviously needs to be addressed for a host of reasons and that is EXACTLY what has been done. All that the 'Recall' involves is punching in the plugs so that the bore of the hole grips them tighter so they won't fall out. It's not an 'Engineering Defect' it is a simple machining error but that won't stop people screaming blue-bloody murder and promulgating inaccurate bullshit as fact.


    Sorry, it's not the fact that the problem is being bought to people's attention that worries me. It's the wild guessing and the promoting of disastrous 'Worst Case Scenarios' as being inevitable that gives me the shits. I'm not saying that that was your intention, the problem is that there will be people who will start all sorts of ever-escalating rumours and theories that will, in a weeks time, see it being stated as fact that all 8V Norges blow out the side of their crankcases for no reason at all!

    All I ask is that anyone wanting to start a rumour like this find out the FACTS first. Ask me! Or some other 'Known Source'. I have access to the latest factory info. If I or others can neither confirm or deny a problem? By all means go ahead and ask around publicly but lets try and stick to FACTS rather than rumour eh?

    Pete
     
  7. RJVB

    RJVB GT Reference

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    There are people with inside information in the community where I learned of this, as there are people who know enough about engineering and combustion engine to teach the stuff at uni. The recall information just seemed important enough to get out ASAP and while I was waiting for more detailed information, I translated what the relevant bits from the recall letter as well as I could. I probably don't have to tell you that flasque = flask, and that there was some need for educated guessing what was meant with an engine flask!

    So, yes, it appears there's no fundamental problem - as long as the engine gets checked when it's in the recall range. While owners here in France get a registered letter which requires acknowledgement of receipt, I don't know if recalls are handled the same in other countries.

    We're on a forum supposed to be catering to enthusiasts. There may be some who are more inclined to wail then others, but I trust that if they were a real concern, Todd wouldn't have stickyfied this topic.
     
  8. RJVB

    RJVB GT Reference

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  9. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    Either way, it's clearly something that almost any cag-handed home mechanic could sort for himself, if he had the mind to.
     
  10. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    We're not gping to play the "My Expert has a shinier white coat and a higher, more polished, domed forehead than your Expert!" game are we :roll: . And no, you don't have to tell me that 'Flasque' is obviously going to mean a container of some sort which would seemingly indicate the crankcase. That is EXACTLY why in a case like this it is important to get ALL the facts, rather than just wht you may see as relevant from a letter you've picked up second hand. The information given in the recall letter is going to be fairly non-specific. All it is doing is telling the owner that there *might* be a problem with his/her machine and that the company wants to rectify it as soon as possible. It does NOT assume, quite rightly, that the owner has any technical skill or understanding at all. To do so would be madness as it would be open slather for any customer to start doing anything *they* felt like doing to their bike and then when it screws up expecting the factory to fix it under 'Warranty'. Oh yes! I forgot! There are HOSTS of people out there who do exactly that!

    I'll see if I can get a list of affected engines and post it up. I dunno if I can but I'll try. Then I'm done with this.

    Pete
     
  11. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    We're not gping to play the "My Expert has a shinier white coat and a higher, more polished, domed forehead than your Expert!" game are we :roll: . And no, you don't have to tell me that 'Flasque' is obviously going to mean a container of some sort which would seemingly indicate the crankcase. That is EXACTLY why in a case like this it is important to get ALL the facts, rather than just wht you may see as relevant from a letter you've picked up second hand. The information given in the recall letter is going to be fairly non-specific. All it is doing is telling the owner that there *might* be a problem with his/her machine and that the company wants to rectify it as soon as possible. It does NOT assume, quite rightly, that the owner has any technical skill or understanding at all. To do so would be madness as it would be open slather for any customer to start doing anything *they* felt like doing to their bike and then when it screws up expecting the factory to fix it under 'Warranty'. Oh yes! I forgot! There are HOSTS of people out there who do exactly that!

    I'll see if I can get a list of affected engines and post it up. I dunno if I can but I'll try. Then I'm done with this.

    Pete
     
  12. baloches

    baloches Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    FLASQUE in this context would be a flange, or end cover.
     
  13. RJVB

    RJVB GT Reference

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    Sigh. I'm going to shrug this all off, but not the suggestion I made some random pick of what I saw as relevant bits of a second-hand letter. I cited the ONLY technical information provided, and clearly indicated that my translation was nothing but an educated guess. Not sure why I even bothered, because I really don't care for that 8V engine - (EDIT) but then, I would have done exactly the same thing if this had concerned the 2V engine..!
     
  14. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    BINGO!!! Exactly Rene. You don't like it so you will, even if it is only subconsciously, look for reasons to find fault. I'm sorry, this is NOT an attack on you, it is simply an observation that there seems to be some sort of 'Old Guard' who can't see past the 1960's pushrod motor, prefferably still wrapped up in a 1960's rolling chassis. Admittedly you've moved beyond that in the fact you obviously love your Norge but there is still this seemingly paranoid suggestion that somehow anything 'New' must, by its very nature be both 'unreliable' and/or 'Bad' and therefore should be treated with the utmost of suspicion!?!?!

    I don't care for the smallblocks. Never have, never will. Does that mean they are 'Bad' bikes??? Far from it. I just happen to dislike them and have found them to be over-all a lot less RELIABLE in service. That's over a thirty plus year timespan mind you. Not just from reading a letter from an importer informing a purchaser of a recall. What I find so hopeless is that I have spent, (By my own choice I accept.) trying to educate people of the virtues of ALL of the Mandello bikes, old and new, but when, at last, the factory starts producing truly 'world class' machines again that can compete on a really 'Level Playing Field' all it takes is one tiny hiccup in production and all of a sudden all Guzzis are shit again. AND THEY NEVER HAVE BEEN they have simply been an antidote to the anodyne 'Niceness' that motorcycles have become.

    I don't care about your personal prejudices. I do care about the bad publicity and suggestions that may put off potential purchasers WHEN THEY HAVE NO FOUNDATION IN FACT.

    Anyway, enough.

    Pete
     
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