Norge idle

[WayneOrwig]

A couple of weeks ago I made arrangements for a Norge owner to drive across the state and I would reset the TPS using the VDSTS software that I have.

He was happy with everything, BUT, when the motor was stone cold, it was a little hard to start. Once running or warm, all was well.We hoped that a TPS reset was all he needed.

His TPS was showing 4.2 degrees at idle. I reset it, and it went to 4.7 (bouncing to 4.8) degrees. All is well. Both air bypass screws were closed. I opened the left one about half a turn, and it balanced the idle vacuum. The higher speed vaccum was a good balance already.

NOW, the idle speed was irregular, and high. It would hang at a high idle. Turning the left bypass screw back in helped (it isn't very far out of balance anyway).

ALSO, he mentioned that it has always had a fast idle on start,and it would take about 10 seconds to settle down. Now it isn't settling down as well.

I believe there was some info on the old board about this before it went away. Having never touched a Norge EFI, I didn't bother looking at it. Is there an idle air control motor or some such that can stick?

 

[YBFAST]

I remember reading quite a few posts about the stepper motor being a cause of poor idle performance. If memory serves me right, one of the more effective "fixes" was leaving the stepper motor in place but restricting the intake hose from the air box to the stepper by cutting and inserting a sleeve with a narrower bore. I thought I'd copied the post somewhere... I'll paste it here if I find it

 

[azccj]

I had a problem like that with my Norge. One day the idle went a little haywire. It sounded like the stepper motor was fighting to keep the idle steady. It would go up then down but wouldn‘t stay steady. I also have the VDSTS and reset the TPS but that did nothing to cure the erratic idle. I finally removed all the charcoal canister stuff with hoses and that cured it once and for all. Tell your friend to see if this might fix his problem to simply disconnect the one hose that attaches to the charcoal can that comes from the throttle bodies and plug that hose. Simple to tell what hose I’m talking about, when you pull it off it will be sucking when the engine is running. When I did that it instantly cured my erratic idle problem. 15 minutes later I had all that evap system crap gone off the bike and stuck in a box. As an added bonus the spot under the seat where the canister once was, now carries my emergency 12 volt air pump and tire plug kit.

 

[DanR]

azccj wrote:

I had a problem like that with my Norge. One day the idle went a little haywire. It sounded like the stepper motor was fighting to keep the idle steady. It would go up then down but wouldn‘t stay steady. I also have the VDSTS and reset the TPS but that did nothing to cure the erratic idle. I finally removed all the charcoal canister stuff with hoses and that cured it once and for all. Tell your friend to see if this might fix his problem to simply disconnect the one hose that attaches to the charcoal can that comes from the throttle bodies and plug that hose. Simple to tell what hose I’m talking about, when you pull it off it will be sucking when the engine is running. When I did that it instantly cured my erratic idle problem. 15 minutes later I had all that evap system crap gone off the bike and stuck in a box. As an added bonus the spot under the seat where the canister once was, now carries my emergency 12 volt air pump and tire plug kit.

Worked for me too !

 

[blackcat]

Wayne Orwig wrote:

Turning the left bypass screw back in helped (it isn't very far out of balance anyway).

Is there an idle air control motor or some such that can stick?

Wayne,

The bypass screws should be completely closed and the steppper motor bleeds air in as needed. I removed the stepper motor(left in place and plugged) on my bike and use the bypass screws to adjust idle. It does require a manual feeding of throttle when cold but I just start it up and lock the throttle with the throttlemeister until warm. I no longer have the up and down weirdness caused by the stepper motor. The TPS is set at 4.8 and I usually get anywhere from 45 to 50 mpg depending on right hand.

 

[Nick]

FWIW many Norge owners in Italy are bypassing the stepper motor to take care of the erratic idle.

I have been experiencing a different idle problem. While at the Ohio rally, I took the bike to Speakers and had Jason check the idle, because after the engine was warm it idled like my old Harley, it seemed to skip a beat. Jason plugged in the Axone and all seemed to be in order except for the oxygen sensor. He replaced it and the idle was OK, for a while. A weeks or so later the bike idles as bad as before. At high rpms all seems OK, but I hate it at idle.
BTW the bike has approx 11,000 miles.
So the EV has been getting some use lately

 

[blackcat]

Nick,

I waited until I had to check the inner spark plugs(replaced them both because one cracked on removal) which involved removing the entire air cleaner box. Reaching down and plugging up the stepper motor was not a problem.

 

[mojohand]

Having some pictures of such would be great--for example, a pic of the charcoal canister's removal and arrows showing which hose to plug....also, same same of the stepper motor.

 

[GTM®]

mojohand wrote:

Having some pictures of such would be great--for example, a pic of the charcoal canister's removal and arrows showing which hose to plug....also, same same of the stepper motor.

Sigh... well, I had most of those up before the server crashed.
I still have the photos, and will post again if it comes to that.

 

[blackcat]

mojohand wrote:

Having some pictures of such would be great--for example, a pic of the charcoal canister's removal and arrows showing which hose to plug....also, same same of the stepper motor.

I took a bunch of photo's of the stepper motor removal. I'll see if they are still floating around on this computer, but it was fairly easy except for re-installing the boots on the throttle bodies but even that wasn't too dificult.

 

[sbaker]

Hello;

Have you removed the evap canister.. That can cause the same problem. It did so on my Norge. I pulled the canister, then cross -connected the Throttle Bodies at the vacume ports... The bike INSTANTLY calmed down and has been that way ever since.

 

[Nick]

mojohand wrote:

Having some pictures of such would be great--for example, a pic of the charcoal canister's removal and arrows showing which hose to plug....also, same same of the stepper motor.

Joe,

Here are a couple of posts addressing your “canister” issue. Hope you find them hopeful.

The cannister has 3 lines attached to it. One is a vent to atmosphere. it allows air to be drawn it when the bike is running. One hose goes to the tank , it allow fuel vapor to go into the cannister, one goes to a t- fitting near the engine, then to the intake nipples. It allows the stored vapors to be drawn into the engine and burned. This system is a CARB requirement and not needed elsewhere.
A simple blow test can identify which hose goes where. (open the gas cap first).
If one were to wish to remove it, the vent line may be removed or ignored, the Purge line to engine should be plugged, the tank line could have a small orifice installed in it to allow the tank to vent as an older bike would. Something like an old main jet may be the perfect size. .
There is no performance lost or gained to an evap system , the only gain is in usuable underseat space. The new system has no issues of tank suck that we have seen.

and here is the 2nd post:

It's really pretty easy - a fifteen minute job. I pulled the canister and all the hoses. A few things to be aware of... There's a hose that goes to a "T" connecting both intake manifolds. You can remove the "T" and connect the two throttle body sync taps together with a new piece of vacuum hose, or just put in a couple of screws and remove the taps 'til you need to sync the TB's. I used a vacuum hose between the taps.

There's a hose from the canister that goes to a "T" under the right side cover. This is a right rear corner tank vent to fresh air and exits under the swing arm - you'll see the hoses running along the bottom of the swing arm. I removed the "T" and used a hose coupler from the tank hose to the swing arm hose and re-used two of the stock hose clamps.

There's another hose that goes to a 1-way valve from the left rear corner of the fuel tank. I removed that hose and valve and left the short vent hose coming from the tank under the rear of the tank by the frame.

I also used a sharp utility knife to trim away the molded-in canister bracket that's part of the rear fender. I made a nice smooth surface and a handy storage space.

 

[Zapa]

Last info I have on this is that, in some cases, the stepper motor is counting 80 steps instead of 100, causing the high idle.

 

[mojohand]

Thanks, folks!

 

[WayneOrwig]

blackcat wrote:

Wayne Orwig wrote:

Turning the left bypass screw back in helped (it isn't very far out of balance anyway).

Is there an idle air control motor or some such that can stick?

The bypass screws should be completely closed and the steppper motor bleeds air in as needed.

Per the shop manual. You close them, then open one a little if needed to balance the idle. I was opening the left one to get a perfect idle balance. But then, it was so close, it probably wasn't worth it.

I heard back from Herb. He removed the evaporative system, and it is now working great..

 

[sbaker]

Wayne Orwig wrote:

blackcat wrote:

Wayne Orwig wrote:

Turning the left bypass screw back in helped (it isn't very far out of balance anyway).

Is there an idle air control motor or some such that can stick?

The bypass screws should be completely closed and the steppper motor bleeds air in as needed.

Per the shop manual. You close them, then open one a little if needed to balance the idle. I was opening the left one to get a perfect idle balance. But then, it was so close, it probably wasn't worth it.

I heard back from Herb. He removed the evaporative system, and it is now working great..

Those EVAP canisters are a real problem.... !!! Thanks California!

 

[ajonen]

It was the faulty evap system on my Norge as well.
It looks like guzzi used some hose that is not rated for gasoline from the tank to the canister.
Also they had some wimpy hose clamps on a union near the tank that caused and air leak.
Replace the hose with some good fuel line hose or simply plug off the intake hose at the canister with a bolt.
You will know which one is the intake by the strong vacuum pressure.

Follow up. After fixing the canister issue I still had idle troubles. So I went ahead and plugged the intake hose to the stepper motor. Essentially disabling it. My idle is at a steady 1100 now. I live in San Diego so no worries about cold weather starting. I could always just get a throttle master if I really need to let it warm up.

Thanks for this post. Saved me a lot of $$.