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Norge oil pump rotor replacement?

John in PA

Cruisin' Guzzisti
GT Contributor
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
255
Location
Hollidaysburg, PA
I was following the thread on Norge oil pump failures. I have a red Norge from the first batch into the US, same batch as Bill Hagan. I know Bill had the pump fail, and others have experienced this too. Having no dealer nearby, I'm thinking about possibly replacing the rotor before a problem happens. Is this doable for the reasonably adventurous home mechanic, or is it a "shop-only" deal?
My understanding is that failed pumps all exhibited a fractured rotor as the primary cause of failure. Is this correct, and is the part easy to access for replacement?

I'm really contemplating a preemptive strike here.
 
Well, since no one has chimed in, John, I'll respond. Bumping this will be about my only contribution as I do not need to tell you I don't know squat.

Still, will also report that I (think I) heard Ian at Riders Hill say that it is about a two-hour job to pull, inspect, and reinstall (or replace) pump. Do not know if pump is (as I would suppose) a "part" itself, i.e., only purchasable as a unit, or if severable.

Will be at RH tomorrow having EV on diagnostic and TB's balanced, so I'll ask Ian and Steve about cost of part(s) and the time and difficulty of the task for a handy amateur (e.g., you, not me!).

I think the only fractured parts I have seen (and kept one as a macabre souvenir) have been what I call rotors, i.e., the internal moving part of the pump, as opposed to the housing.

If Pete Roper or other gurus read this and retch at my butchery of the nomenclature, etc.,be nice. :p

Bottom line at the bottom? If I had an early Norge, I would sure do the exploratory surgery, as I have seen the expense that accompanies not doing so. While I understand that they probably won't unless forced, I still think Piaggio owes notice, apologies, and some "adjustment" (e.g., Piaggio-paid replacement or at least check up) to owners of 2007 Norges or to those who own one built before they know -- and they do! -- the pumps got well.

Bill
 
It's always hard to give advice in this sort of situation as what may be seen as 'Simple' to some may be imposibly and dangerously complicated to others.

The biggest problems with something like a Norge are the need to remove a lot of stuff before you actually GET to the timing chest itself. Oil cooler, lots of plastic and the alternator spring immediately to mind.

Once you have accessed the chest and removed the cover you need to remove the timing chain and sprockest which is no big deal really and then the pump just sits there glaring balefully at you from the bottom of the chest and its a simple matter of undoing four bolts to remove it.

The real issues are do you have good tools and the confidence to tackle it? If the answer to either of those questions is 'No'. then I'd leave it up to a decent shop.

pete
 
The previous post has excellent instructions on removing the chest cover. Any instructions posted on dealing with the timing chain removal/reinstall? I'm still debating. I've only been into the timing chest on an Eldorado to replace a front seal. It would be an easier decision if there was a good shop nearby.
 
Following this thread with interest. I have one of the early 2007 Norges VIN ...7M112208. this is very close in production number to the other failed Norge oil pumps (Bill Hagan etc). I have read all the info I can find on this site as well as WildGuzzi and have the same dilemma as you. Tear it apart and do pre-emptive replacement or wait and hope for the best.

My symptoms are: 1) Red triangle and oil can often come on upon start up, but not always. 2) Once on, they will shut off when engine rpm reaches about 3,000 and never come back on. If I ride for awhile, stop for an hour or two, restart the bike they still will not come back on. However, if the bike is parked for a few days they will usually show up again upon startup as explained above.

I too believe I may have a broken outer rotor of the oil pump. However, what I have read suggests that the outer rotor may function for an extended time period with no catastrophic pump failure. I am inclined to ride as is and keep an eye out for any changes, especially given the price of the oil pump. I have not checked at a US dealer but the Moto & Loisir article indicated over 500 Euros. Additionally, the parts list seems to indicate that the pump must be purchased as a complete unit.

I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
 
i have no idiot light issues on mine. (the only idiot is the one in the saddle!!) If I did, I think that would push me over the edge toward the repair. i understand that if it frags, it will torch bearings etc really quick!! No time to pull over or"nurse it home."
 
Thanks for the input. As a result I have decided to do a pre-emptive teardown and repair if necessary. Peace of mind is more important as I grow older.
 
healeyblue said:
Thanks for the input. As a result I have decided to do a pre-emptive teardown and repair if necessary. Peace of mind is more important as I grow older.


Please let us know what you find. The time, difficulty and expense if replacement is needed.

May 07 Norge owner with no symptoms.
 
I took my Norge to the MG dealer in Fort Collins and upon inspection they found the the rotor was, in fact, broken into multiple pieces. The oil pump must be replaced as a unit and they are ordering one for me. MSRP for the pump seems to be about $450 here in the US. Interestingly, it is about $100 less in the UK.

The dealer is talking with Piaggio in an attempt to get some help on the cost of the part and repair. I will update this thread when I have more info.
 
healeyblue said:
I took my Norge to the MG dealer in Fort Collins and upon inspection they found the the rotor was, in fact, broken into multiple pieces. The oil pump must be replaced as a unit and they are ordering one for me. MSRP for the pump seems to be about $450 here in the US. Interestingly, it is about $100 less in the UK.

The dealer is talking with Piaggio in an attempt to get some help on the cost of the part and repair. I will update this thread when I have more info.
It would be great to see some pictures of the broken pieces.
 
healeyblue said:
Following this thread with interest. I have one of the early 2007 Norges VIN ...7M112208. this is very close in production number to the other failed Norge oil pumps (Bill Hagan etc). I have read all the info I can find on this site as well as WildGuzzi and have the same dilemma as you. Tear it apart and do pre-emptive replacement or wait and hope for the best.

My symptoms are: 1) Red triangle and oil can often come on upon start up, but not always. 2) Once on, they will shut off when engine rpm reaches about 3,000 and never come back on. If I ride for awhile, stop for an hour or two, restart the bike they still will not come back on. However, if the bike is parked for a few days they will usually show up again upon startup as explained above.

I too believe I may have a broken outer rotor of the oil pump. However, what I have read suggests that the outer rotor may function for an extended time period with no catastrophic pump failure. I am inclined to ride as is and keep an eye out for any changes, especially given the price of the oil pump. I have not checked at a US dealer but the Moto & Loisir article indicated over 500 Euros. Additionally, the parts list seems to indicate that the pump must be purchased as a complete unit.

I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.


Bill H if you see this what are the last 8 numbers and letters on your Norge ?

Mine is 7M113013 which if you follow normal logic oh wait we are talking the Italians here Hmmm, Well anyway would be 805 units later then HealeyBlue.

I do hope you get some satisfaction from Piaggio as Bill states "THEY DO KNOW " what the affected bike VIN's are.
 
My 2007 Norge has a build date of June of 2007, hopefully one of the last 2007 Norges built before production began on the 2008s. I hope that all the bad pumps got used up before they built mine. My Norge currently has 32K miles and not a hint of any oil pressure problem so far. Tomorrow I head out on a three week 6000+ mile road trip. Hopefully I wont be in the middle of Montana if and when my pump decides to come apart. :eek:
 
azccj said:
My 2007 Norge has a build date of June of 2007, hopefully one of the last 2007 Norges built before production began on the 2008s. I hope that all the bad pumps got used up before they built mine. My Norge currently has 32K miles and not a hint of any oil pressure problem so far. Tomorrow I head out on a three week 6000+ mile road trip. Hopefully I wont be in the middle of Montana if and when my pump decides to come apart. :eek:

Do you have a Vin # to post ? A database of numbers would be very helpful, Have a great time, ride safe. I envy you ! :mrgreen:
 
draidt said:
azccj said:
My 2007 Norge has a build date of June of 2007, hopefully one of the last 2007 Norges built before production began on the 2008s. I hope that all the bad pumps got used up before they built mine. My Norge currently has 32K miles and not a hint of any oil pressure problem so far. Tomorrow I head out on a three week 6000+ mile road trip. Hopefully I wont be in the middle of Montana if and when my pump decides to come apart. :eek:

Do you have a Vin # to post ? A database of numbers would be very helpful, Have a great time, ride safe. I envy you ! :mrgreen:

My vin # is 7M112303 build date is Nov 2006 (2 digits prior to Bill H) with 22K miles and "seems" ok. Am taking it to the WV rally at Pipestem in a couple of weeks.
However It did show the ominous red triangle once at the NC rally

Does anyone have any idea on how much a dealer/qualified mechanic would want/charge for a preemptive replacement?

Nick

Dan,
check out this link for the vin #s

https://www.guzzitech.com/MGGriso/Registry.html
 
The new oil pump won't be in until next week and I am hoping to get the bike back from the dealer by next week-end. I will take photos and post them. Dealer said that the rotor had broken into multiple pieces so my guess is that it will look much like other photos posted and those in the Moto & Loisir article previously referenced on this forum.

I will also let you know how much the cost to replace it is. The pump itself is about $450.
 
draidt said:
azccj said:
My 2007 Norge has a build date of June of 2007, hopefully one of the last 2007 Norges built before production began on the 2008s. I hope that all the bad pumps got used up before they built mine. My Norge currently has 32K miles and not a hint of any oil pressure problem so far. Tomorrow I head out on a three week 6000+ mile road trip. Hopefully I wont be in the middle of Montana if and when my pump decides to come apart. :eek:

Do you have a Vin # to post ? A database of numbers would be very helpful, Have a great time, ride safe. I envy you ! :mrgreen:
My VIN ends with M113741.
 
azccj said:
draidt said:
azccj said:
My 2007 Norge has a build date of June of 2007, hopefully one of the last 2007 Norges built before production began on the 2008s. I hope that all the bad pumps got used up before they built mine. My Norge currently has 32K miles and not a hint of any oil pressure problem so far. Tomorrow I head out on a three week 6000+ mile road trip. Hopefully I wont be in the middle of Montana if and when my pump decides to come apart. :eek:

Do you have a Vin # to post ? A database of numbers would be very helpful, Have a great time, ride safe. I envy you ! :mrgreen:
My VIN ends with M113741.


I think you are well beyond the area of concern, ride it like you stole it !1 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
OK, these are the Vin #s of oil pump failures I am specifically aware of: 7M112208, 210, 305. Also maybe 303 (per earlier post showed red triangle once). I have heard there was a much later one, but do not have ser #. Anyone having positive failures with other serial #s, please post the numbers ASAP for the sake of all of us. All of the above are 10-11/06 build dates.
 
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