PC-V User Comments

[Martin]

Re: PC-V User Guide PDF - Install info

Fuel consumption on my Breva has gone from about 4.1-4.6 L/100Km to between 7 and 7.8 L/100km.

With no other information than this is it sounds really dramatic and only a reason not to do the "up"grade. . .:dry:
Is there something I'm missing or do you really regret buying the PCV/AT? :unsure:

 

[draidt]

Re: PC-V User Guide PDF - Install info

Fuel consumption on my Breva has gone from about 4.1-4.6 L/100Km to between 7 and 7.8 L/100km.

With no other information than this is it sounds really dramatic and only a reason not to do the "up"grade. . .:dry:
Is there something I'm missing or do you really regret buying the PCV/AT? :unsure:

I have got to agree that this does sounds excessive, using my experience we are talking about a drop from 45 MPG to around 40 MPG and I am sure I could bring it up by fiddling with the A/F mixture settings. Once you have ridden a modified bike IMO the drop I encountered would not matter a twit. That being said I don't know why you ride, Is it because of economy or the sheer enjoyment of the wind in you face and screw the rest of the world while I am doing it. There is a huge difference, not saying the former is not a good reason but it is just is not mine.

 

[Mike.C]

Re: PC-V User Guide PDF - Install info

No nothing missing, just answering the question by stating an observed fact from 5000km of riding my Breva with a full monty fuelling system; PCV / Auto Tune / air box mod / Stucchi crossover / Staintune pipe.

Whether an increase in fuel consumption is acceptable or not depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you want a race bike with chequered flag performance then you better have deep pockets and a friendly fuel supplier, if you want a travel bike then fuel consumption and reliability become more important - horses for courses.

The PCV certainly increases the power outupt from the engine and it's fundamental physics if you want more power it has to come from somewhere and Inevitably that means more go juice.

 

[Martin]

Re: PC-V User Guide PDF - Install info

Whether an increase in fuel consumption is acceptable or not depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you want a race bike with chequered flag performance then you better have deep pockets and a friendly fuel supplier, if you want a travel bike then fuel consumption and reliability become more important - horses for courses.

The PCV certainly increases the power outupt from the engine and it's fundamental physics if you want more power it has to come from somewhere and Inevitably that means more go juice.

If you want a race bike with chequered flag performance then you better buy an other type of bike. . .
Fuelconsumption went from 1:23 to 1:13,5. My conclusion should be that there must be something wrong, or you must have altered your riding style completely?
What opinion do the experts have on this?

 

[cytocycle]

Re: PC-V User Guide PDF - Install info

I am looking at doing the PCV/ECU modification to remove the lean stop below 5-6k because a lean air cooled motorcycle runs hot and heat causes more problems. Yes fattening up this region will reduce gas mileage if more time is spent here than reving.. and since the Griso 8v is overly rich above 6k, cutting that would save gas if most of the time is spent here. I am looking for smooth throttle response and the stock EPA mandated lean doesn't provide that.

It's not about a race bike, it about optimized performance, if I had a 250cc bike I would want it to be fueled correctly. The tire costs of motorcycles rules out any COST savings in a high gas mileage number in my opinion which is why I don't recommend motorcycles to people to save money, But then again I believe in using max grip compounds instead of high mileage tires.

 

[GTM®]

Re: PC-V User Guide PDF - Install info

Thanks on above Dan and cytocycle.

If you want a race bike with chequered flag performance then you better buy an other type of bike. . .
Fuel consumption went from 1:23 to 1:13,5. My conclusion should be that there must be something wrong, or you must have altered your riding style completely? What opinion do the experts have on this?

It's quite a proven fact that for the first month or two, new PC-V riders enjoy twisting the throttle a bit more. That said...

The real reasons are well covered in my original PC-V thread. As a recap, stoichiometric AFR for the most efficient burn of a internal combustion engine is 14.7:1, using liquid-cooling. The charts in my original thread show where the newer air-cooled Guzzi are fueling at 16~17:1+ AFR. Air-cooled is really fuel-cooled, so more fuel is required to allow cooler running, and in turn you get more power. I honestly have a hard time understanding how the factory can offer a warranty on the new engine with these fueling numbers.
The PC-V allows fuel adjustment by the end user, and the AFR's I post on were derived from many, many hours on the dyno to give the best cooling and power. Yes it means more fuel consumption. If you are more worried about fuel consumption then a smooth and cool running engine with more power, then I recommend not purchasing this product or a GT-Rx ECU.

Mike, no hard feelings here, but it certainly sounds like you have some regrets on your purchase (including no follow-up on your original thread). You can either revise the AFR tables to get it where you want fuel consumption wise (I'd really recommend no more then 13.8:1 AFR) , or I'll be happy to refund you the full amount on your kits for a return of everything.

As of right now, I have less then two deposits on the next custom PC-V run, so it looks like anyone that wants one will be waiting for Dynojet to release it hopefully sometime late this year.

Thanks to all of those who have purchased and have posted here.

 

[Martin]

Yes it means more fuel consumption. If you are more worried about fuel consumption then a smooth and cool running engine with more power, then I recommend not purchasing this product or a GT-Rx ECU.

As with most things, there are two sides on this subject and most people are looking for some kind of a compromise.
So, what can we suspect from the PCV/AT/ACU in terms of fuel consumption? Of course, with a moderate riding style. . .
My 1200Sport needs 1:17 and that's the same as the Breva1100 we had. I don't liked the Breva and kept always looking at the fuel consumption, I like the 1200Sport and look at it seldom. Mean to say: with a good running bike a couple of km. more or less out of a litre is not so important. From this point of view: 1:15 would be just acceptable for me. . . less not. . .

As of right now, I have less then two deposits on the next custom PC-V run, so it looks like anyone that wants one will be waiting for Dynojet to release it hopefully sometime late this year.

Within four days and 13 people voting, you can't expect 30 people would have signed in. . . I hope you stay positive and wait a while. . .

 

[Mike.C]

All of you are taking my comments out of context, it is for this reason that I have been hesitant to post on my experience with the PCV. FFS don't jump to conclusions by reading into posts meaning that is not there - to be honest I am now sorry I offered what I thought was some relevant information in answer to a legitimate question.

No I don't want a different bike for chequered flag performance thank you very much. The chequered flag analogy was only to illustrate the point - which is if you want to tune your bike for ultimate power then you cannot by default be worried about fuel consumption and vice versa. As Martin says most real world riders will be happy with a compromise, the real question is where on the scale of compromise the individual finds their fuelling nirvana and then how can he/she achieve that, be it by installing a PCV, some other technique or indeed leaving the bike stock standard.

Sorry to dissapoint, but I will not be offering a PCV for sale, nor returning them for a refund. I haven't finished playing with them yet.

 

[Saint Nut]

Re: PC-V User Guide PDF - Install info

Thought I'd chime in here since it was my post got this started. For me, MPG's have nothing to do with the cost of fuel and everything to do with RANGE. I've been on rides where the fuel stations are 100 to 200 miles apart. It's nice knowing that if you filled up in Burns and the gas station in Steens is out of gas (this happened to me), and the one gas station in McDermitt is closed, you can still make it to Winnemucca (220 miles) without abandoning your route, or carrying gas in your luggage.

My original post asked this question--

I haven't seen anybody reporting back here about MPG and range when using the "economode" 13.6 A/F ratios Todd suggested.

Anybody do any before and after comparisons?

I wasn't trying to start a debate here about the pro's and con's of fuel mapping. I just wanted to know if anybody is running 13.6-13.8 and has actual before and after numbers? I don't think anyone has replied to that particular question. Closest anyone came was draidt who said his Norge dropped about 4-5 MPG's with a 13.2 A/F Ratio.

 

[draidt]

Re: PC-V User Guide PDF - Install info

Thought I'd chime in here since it was my post got this started. For me, MPG's have nothing to do with the cost of fuel and everything to do with RANGE. I've been on rides where the fuel stations are 100 to 200 miles apart. It's nice knowing that if you filled up in Burns and the gas station in Steens is out of gas (this happened to me), and the one gas station in McDermitt is closed, you can still make it to Winnemucca (220 miles) without abandoning your route, or carrying gas in your luggage.

My original post asked this question--

I haven't seen anybody reporting back here about MPG and range when using the "economode" 13.6 A/F ratios Todd suggested.

Anybody do any before and after comparisons?

I wasn't trying to start a debate here about the pro's and con's of fuel mapping. I just wanted to know if anybody is running 13.6-13.8 and has actual before and after numbers? I don't think anyone has replied to that particular question. Closest anyone came was draidt who said his Norge dropped about 4-5 MPG's with a 13.2 A/F Ratio.

Tell you what this Saturday I am taking the Norge on a 200 mile round trip and will try a 13.6 A/F Ratio, I should be able to tell you about the MPG and performance difference on the first leg. If I do not like what is happening I am bring my NetBook PC with me and will reset it to 13.2 on the return leg.

I am curious also.

 

[Mike.C]

Re: PC-V User Guide PDF - Install info

Saint Nut

The figures I posted are actual before and after figures using 13.6 in all the map cells that are used while cruising.

 

[Saint Nut]

Ah, Mike, that's quite something then.

I'll be very interested to see what draidt comes up with after this weekend especially as my bike is also Norwegian.

 

[2Laner]

Just back from my 1st true run with the ECU/PC5 setup. I installed it late last Fall and COLD crappy wx came fast. Living in central Illinois I have to go a ways for any serious roading fun. Hooked up with a MSTA rally, again 1st time with these folks, for a 300 mile run of "Alphabet" roads in S.W. Wisconson centered from Spring Green. Great club and fantastic roads with a true challenge of route and pace. Lots of twisties :woohoo: My 1200 Sport ran right with anything that came our way and was right on the ass of any sportbike there. This club is open to all riders and all bikes. Highly recommend. New Michelin Pilot 2's capped it. Awesome tires. Original M3 gone around 4k. Anyway thanks again Todd for your research/efforts to make this Guzzi run the way it should. No pinging , bike doesn't feel like a blast furnace with the 90 degree temps today like my B11 did and just excellent throttle response everywhere. Bravo! Yeah gas milage is down, but if I was worried about that I would of got a Vespa.

Edit: Not really on there ass, the lead guys on the Kaw1000 and the KTM were really fast and better riders than me. Sure was fun.

 

[Martin]

Yeah gas milage is down, but if I was worried about that I would of got a Vespa.

How much is it down, do you have numbers before and after you've installed the ECU?PCV? No AT?
Is the lower milage because of the different fueling or because of using your right hand different?

 

[bobra]

Yeah gas milage is down, but if I was worried about that I would of got a Vespa.

How much is it down, do you have numbers before and after you've installed the ECU?PCV? No AT?
Is the lower milage because of the different fueling or because of using your right hand different?

Fuel consumption on my Norge went from about 5.8L/100km to 6.2L/100Km (as indicated by the on-board computer) after I installed the PCV/AT. Well worth it in my view - still have 300+ km range. I haven't really played with the mapping much - just accepted the AT chan ges.

Regards