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Pinking/Pinging/Detonation

O

Oldman

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
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Sanlucar de Guadiana Spain
Hello. I have a 2020 E4 V85 now with 18000 km and it has started pinging. The 'nuts rattling in a can' noise happens at 3200 to 4500 rpm when opening the throttle under load. I know that the bike runs better at 4000 rpm but I never had this problem before and I wonder if it is indicative of a fault. What I am asking is : 'Does the V85 have a knock sensor?' and if not, 'How does it work out to advance/retard the ignition?'. I am thinking that whatever this mechanism is, it has gone wrong. I have tried 100 RON fuel and it improved the symptoms a little but only a little. I have searched also on pinging so I know about potential lambda sensor issues and airbox issues which I will look at. I have also changed the plugs. Thanks, Mark
 
Downshift should eliminate the pinging. Also run the highest octane you can buy. Now if you go to the store you will see fueling options. No knock sensor and timing cannot be changed by the owner, only the improved maps from the store.
 
Simple stuff…

New spark plugs + valve adjustment.

If this doesn’t resolve it, look for a fuel system cleaner with polyetheramine in it. Here in the USA, Gumout Total System has this chemical. It is an excellent organic solvent for removing carbon.

If you cannot locate something like this in Spain, I would use very small amounts (1 ml or less) of distilled water allowed into the intake vacuum port of the running engine, in order to facilitate de-carbonizing the piston crowns as you may have a hot spot of carbon causing pre-detonation (what you call pinging).

Pinging is not harmless but in fact is seriously damaging to the engine.

It is the sound of the early ignition of the charge, which is expanding and slamming into the rising piston. It causes bad damage over time.

At a minimum, if you hear this sound while riding, back off the throttle a little until it subsides. Avoid pinging always.
 
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Thanks for the replies. As to oil, I have just completed a three week trip to Albania and monitored the oil level all the time so the answer is 300ml in 5,500 km. I can only get 5% ethanol, 95 or 98 RON. When travelling sometimes 100 RON. The detonation was before and after new plugs. The tappets were last checked 8000 km back, I will check again. I will try some cleaner, I understand the carbon issue. Meanwhile I have uploaded a video (only way I could record the sound) of the noise. Please remember I was deliberately trying to capture the sound, I don't normally just randomnly open the throttle like this! Also I have a V7iii, it runs on same fuel, same hot place, no pinking.
 
That's detonation for sure. I suspect that your mixture is lean. Like I said, check and adjust the valves properly. It's time. Also, try and clean up carbon deposit on the piston crown with either a chemical or distilled water as I told you about.

The other thing to check is get some starting fluid and spray it all around the intake manifold while the bike is running. If you experience either an increase or decrease in idle speed from this, you have a vacuum leak which would contribute to a lean condition and allow detonation.
 
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scottmastrocinque said:
That's detonation for sure. I suspect that your mixture is lean. Like I said, check and adjust the valves properly. It's time. Also, try and clean up carbon deposit on the piston crown with either a chemical or distilled water as I told you about.

The other thing to check is get some starting fluid and spray it all around the intake manifold while the bike is running. If you experience either an increase or decrease in idle speed from this, you have a vacuum leak which would contribute to a lean condition and allow detonation.
Click to expand...
Thanks! By starting fluid you mean the ketone stuff that is often used to help old diesel engines start?
 
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www.guzzitech.com

V85TT reliability

Thank you Pridanc and Jason, in your opinion is a 2021 v85tt in desperate need of a remap. I am a little concerned about it running hot, although I live in a region of cool summers and brutal Winters
www.guzzitech.com www.guzzitech.com
See the report from KGLM who seems to have disappeared from here. Mine had a similar issue with rings and lost power and the ability to accelerate under full throttle. Yours is using more oil than I'd want and about the same as mine was. However, mine only pinged a couple of times while leaving a stop sigh in 85+ heat then quit once broken in. The dealer said it was totally caked up with carbon.
Put this in your memory bank. Not sure if it's your issue, but a place to go if the tips from Scott don't work.
 
I'm a bit more used to spraying WD-40 around the intake areas looking for leaks . Sure wouldn't want
to discover I had an arcing plug cap or lead with the quick-start , but maybe I'm just a worry wart :) . Peter
 
Well thank you all. I now know much more than I did and it is clear how I should proceed. May I add two things? Firstly I now find out there was a valve recall on the V85, was this very limited as I can find out almost nothing about it. Secondly I have read the errors on the ECU and I have two, both lambda flow errors, both left cylinder. So, can a lambda sensor error lead to pinking or is it throwing an error because of pinking?
 
If you have a bad λ sensor, then the current fueling information is not making it back to the ECU when the motorcycle is supposed to be functioning in closed loop mode.

What would be happening is the ECU will just run with default table values and not get any dynamic information to pass back to the ECU for any fueling / timing adjustments.

I think you may have found your problem.
 
I wouldn’t replace the sensor until I cleared the fault and then see if it returned again. You might want to duplicate the error at least once or twice before you start buying parts.

λ sensors are expensive!

👌👍🙏
 
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Hi!
Last week I bought a second-hand V85TT Euro 5 2022 model with just over 6000km on the clock. It looks brand new and it still has about 9 months factory warranty left. I did not expect any problems with such a bike. But when I entered start-stop city traffic on the way home (after 150km) from the dealer it started to ping badly. Idling was a bit rough as well.
The ambient temperature was not very high, only approx 25ᵒC. Here in Australia it can easily get to 35-40ᵒC in summer, at that temperature it will not be fun to ride as it is.
As for fuel, the dealer filled the tank when I ordered the bike so I do not know which octane rating is in the tank at the moment. I assume the lowest recommended which over here is 95.
When I took it for a half-an-hour test ride before buying, also at approx 25ᵒC, I did not notice any pinging.

Next week I will bring it back to the dealer, their work shop will check it out under warranty. Hopefully they will find the issue and fix it.
If they cannot fix it, would anyone know of a good aftermarket remap or similar with a air/fuel ratio to make the engine run better? I do not mind if the fuel consumption increases.
In other sections of this forum I have read that various booster plug-ins are not worth spending money on even though their ads claim to correct air/fuel ratio in all conditions. Is that still true?
 
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