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Running-in and 10W60 (again!)

ipo

ipo

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
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Location
Toronto
First, let me apologize for bringing this up again but I've read most posts (including #12920) and I'm still at a total loss. Please bear with me for a couple of minutes and you'll see why. I bought my 2007 Griso 1100 two months ago in new condition. I received 3 manuals: 1) Warranty, 2) Use and Maintenance in English, and 3) Use and Maintenance in other languages. I read manual #2 from cover to cover and this is what it says: "Scheduled maintenance chart: First inspection to be performed at the end of the running-in period (1500 km)"

As I hit 1300 km the little wrench icon begins to flash on the panel. Totally surprised, I re-read the manual to make sure I didn't misread. Nope, it says 1500Km. Then I take a look at 4 different manuals (pdf files) for the Griso that I found at Guzzitech and elsewhere. They all say 1000Km. Hence, I decide to change the engine oil. My manual says to use Agip Racing 4T 5W40 (or other top brand exceeding CCMC G-4 A.P.I. SG specifications). As an additional check I consult manual #3 where I find a little insert (looks like an update after printing) that says to use Agip Racing 4T 10W60. I go back to the online manuals for further confirmation and they all say 10W60.

Convinced that I must use 10W60 I ride down to the closest authorized Guzzi dealer to buy the oil when one of the tech guys tells me that the one to use is not 10W60 but 15W50, and sells me 4 liters for a small fortune. Somewhat perplexed I turn to this forum where I find that post #12920 says that Moto Guzzi has released a technical note to the dealerships where it "warmly recommends to use 10W60"!

Does the dealer know what he's talking about? Which one is correct, my hardcopies, the pdf versions, or the technical note? Why would Moto Guzzi go from 5W40 to 10W60 and warmly recommend the dealerships to use such oil? Have there been any additional bulletins released by the manufacturer since post #12920 that says to use the oil the dealer has sold to me today? What is the correct mileage for the running-in period?

I hope you can understand my confusion and frustration. I'd tend to believe that the running-end period ends at 1000Km and that the oil to use is 10W60. Am I correct in assuming this? Is it imperative that I exchange the oil that I purchased today? Any help will be much appreciated as I'm not too keen about continuing to ride the bike without the proper fluid changes. Thanks everyone in advance.

ipo
 
Latest Guzzi-recs ARE 10W-60.
You are not nescessarely forced to buy it at your ignorant dealer, besides Agip at least the're Castrol and Motorex equal to the Guzzi recs.
Then, for using those expensive oils, I guess it's your own decision, based on guts, driving habits, climate and experience, if you choose to use oils of other specs.

For the service indicator; well, I'm not the happy owner of a Griso, but I'd guess it's totally normal that the service indicator would begin flashing before the recommended service. My car will do it 1000 km before the breaking point.
 
Andrew: If I'm not mistaken the wrench icon is supposed to start flashing a couple of hundred k before the specified interval and if you hit the interval without it being reset it will stay on rather than flash on startup. As for the oil weight I'm looking into it and just because someone is recommending an oil weight that is "slightly different weight" does not make them ignorant! It could be based on quite rational experience in the climatic conditions relevant to the region, or other pertinent variables. I'm pretty sure the oil you are speaking of is the same spec as the Agip as for the 10w60/ 15w50. it is a slight difference in weight, hot and cold. As for performing the 1st service at 1000k as opposed to 1500k you have harmed nothing, all you have done is remove oiland a filter that probably have fine metal paricles throughout due to the breakin process. I had mine done at 1000k and had the oil/filter replaced again at 2000k ( 1000 after having the cams replaced.) I also had the tps reset, the throttle bodies syn' ced and the heads retorqued and none of that is in the maintenance schedule, Makes sense to me as a mechanic!
FBC
 
Thanks Doug. Your advice is very reassuring knowing the extensive experience under your belt. This weekend I think I'll go ahead with the 15W50 unless I hear from you telling me otherwise. Regarding the service remainder my car dealer has always set it to start blinking once I'm over the limit so it didn't cross my mind that for the bike it would be set to blink before the running-in period is reached. Thanks again.

andrew
 
yes, pretty sure the 'W' in '10W50' etc stands for 'winter' - so if you're using the bike where fluffy white stuff falls from the sky at certain times of the year, then a low number before the 'W' is a good idea :dry:
 
The 'w ' does stand for winter and I guarantee you the average temp. in Toronto is lower than California , Nevada , Arkansas, Italy ect.
FBC
 
Moz wrote:
yes, pretty sure the 'W' in '10W50' etc stands for 'winter' - so if you're using the bike where fluffy white stuff falls from the sky at certain times of the year, then a low number before the 'W' is a good idea :dry:
Click to expand...

Also a low viscosity in the cold end will help getting up the oil pressure faster at start. Not to be neglected.
 
It is worthy of note that Guzzi only specify one grade of oil, and seem to make no allowance for differing climates. Where 10W60 might well be required in the hotter parts of the globe, I would make a guess that 10W50 would be more than adequate in the cooler areas.
Indeed, a 5Wxx oil might be better on those very cold days.
 
Brian UK wrote:
It is worthy of note that Guzzi only specify one grade of oil, and seem to make no allowance for differing climates. Where 10W60 might well be required in the hotter parts of the globe, I would make a guess that 10W50 would be more than adequate in the cooler areas.
Indeed, a 5Wxx oil might be better on those very cold days.
Click to expand...

My problem in that respect is, that I'm going from a colder to a warmer climate when I'm touring. :)
I used to have a good 10W-50 in the sump, but found it to be very like dark molasses when changed.
So this year I'll try the real stuff. :woohoo:
 
Hey Andrew; I've been doing some snooping around ( also awaiting some feedback from a human source) I believe the oil concerning you is probably Maxima extra4 15w50? Maxima is a high performance full synthetic bike oil. The AGIP racing 4T 10w60 is too. Basically the difference is slight difference in grades. The AGIP has a slightly higher viscosity index at 100 degrees celsius , which it would cause the 60 is higher than the 50. The maxima is what's in mine , I'm not worried , cause I don't flog my engine wide open like you would racing. Regular oil and filter changes will do more for your engine than that 60 opposed to the 50 ever would.I'd say if you want to run the AGIP instead of the Maxima, go ahead but the Maxima sure as shit,isn't going to hurt it. Funny thing I noticed was that the standards that AGIP meet ,Maxima exceed. Oh and another thing I noticed was some 'nut rubbing ' going on. All of Piaggio two wheel products recomend AGIP oil. Yeah and a slug like single cylinder 4 stroke scooter needs racing oil. I may have been born at night... but it wasn't last night. Hope this helps your dilemma and if I find anything else out I'll let you know.
FBC
 
It's hardly surprising that an Italian manufacturer recommends an Italian oil. Agip make all types of oil too, not just "racing" oil.

Anders, the oil in my sump looked like molasses very shortly after it was put in.
 
Hey Doug, I love your comment on the racing oil for the scooters. But isn't it interesting is how MG "changes its mind" regarding oil specs and running-in periods? I mean, if it's really 1000km is not like one can drop 500km like they did in my model.
 
Hi guys (my first post)

I'm interested in other views on the merits of using oil designed for cars. For wet clutch use and shared oil with the gearbox I would never use anything but bike oil but as the Breva is has a dry clutch and seperate gearbox oil it seems to me that the requirements for engine oil are no different than a (high performance) car engine. Here in the UK I can get Castrol Edge Sport in 10W60 which is fully synthetic and designed for tuned engines (its a step up from Castrol Edge 10W60 which is recommended for BMW M series car engines). Anybody see any technical reason why this should not be suitable?
 
The short answer on using car oils is that it is not recommended, at least here in the US. Here, oils are graded by the Amer. Petroleum Inst. (API). Grade started with SA, and as oils developed they added grades, ex. SB, SC, etc. It's now around SM. However, what makes SM different from some of the lower grades, like SG, it that it has LESS engine protective phosphorus than SG. They went "backward" because the phosphorus accelerates wear on catalytic converters.

In short, cycle oil is usually graded SG, because we like the engine protective elements and don't care about the cat converters.

Actually it is more complicated than that. Much more complicated. Here's a good link; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#API_service_classes

Joe
 
I recently sent an email to Castrol Uk technical services regarding the use of 10/60 oil in my Stelvio. The reply from Andy Griffin, their automotive lubricants technical advisor, was that Castrol Edge Sport 10/60 was what they reccommend. It's a higher spec oil than the AGIP, so thats whats going in my bike.
 
Brian UK wrote:
Anders, the oil in my sump looked like molasses very shortly after it was put in.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the colour only - mostly the molasses-like consistency, actually, that worried me the most.
 
Anders, if you really want to see that sort of consistency, try putting in machine cutting oil, go through about 6 heating and cooling cycles, you drop the sump and it springs back up again on elastic.
A certain local dealer was supplied a drum of this which was labled 10W60. Wrote off several bikes.
 
Brian I've heard about that cutting oil mistake, I read somewhere it was Rock Oil, however they do not produce a 10/60 oil, they do a 20/60, so can't be certain it was them. An awful mistake to make though :blush:
 
fatal wrote:
Brian I've heard about that cutting oil mistake, I read somewhere it was Rock Oil, however they do not produce a 10/60 oil, they do a 20/60, so can't be certain it was them. An awful mistake to make though :blush:
Click to expand...


err... Rock Oil do produce a 10w/60. It's in my bike!
 
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