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Stelvio Feedback solicited
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Wonder B wrote:
Well, your basically right about the factory warranty. Probably all the distributors and dealers have a clause in their contracts that say just that. But it's not a law, and in practice things may be difficult, many owners of "grey imports" have noticed that.
Also here in Finland we have very good consumer legislation. Any business selling a product is directly responsible for the product, its quality, durability etc. Also there is no fixed time limit. For example I can reasonably expect a motorcycle engine to last for years. So if it blows up suddenly after three years, they have to fix it unless the damage is due to lack of maintenance, improper use or such.
Any voluntary warranty or guarantee given by the manufacturer, distributor or the dealer is just an added benefit and cannot release the seller (dealer) of the product from his responsibility under the law.
If I imported the bike privately, I'd only have the factory warranty. And if I had bypassed the official distributor, he probably wouldn't fall over himself trying to help me with any issues I might have, even though the manufacturer possibly might compensate him for it.
Well, your basically right about the factory warranty. Probably all the distributors and dealers have a clause in their contracts that say just that. But it's not a law, and in practice things may be difficult, many owners of "grey imports" have noticed that.
Also here in Finland we have very good consumer legislation. Any business selling a product is directly responsible for the product, its quality, durability etc. Also there is no fixed time limit. For example I can reasonably expect a motorcycle engine to last for years. So if it blows up suddenly after three years, they have to fix it unless the damage is due to lack of maintenance, improper use or such.
Any voluntary warranty or guarantee given by the manufacturer, distributor or the dealer is just an added benefit and cannot release the seller (dealer) of the product from his responsibility under the law.
If I imported the bike privately, I'd only have the factory warranty. And if I had bypassed the official distributor, he probably wouldn't fall over himself trying to help me with any issues I might have, even though the manufacturer possibly might compensate him for it.
OK I understand about the special consumer laws in Finland... but no such law is worth DOUBLE the price of the bike!!!!! Which is why I answered your post in the first place.
Because at any rate, even if your enginer would break after three years there is STILL no way it would cost you more in the end having it repaired, rather than having paid double price right from the start.
You would have to totally trash your bike (and then I am not even counting the money you'd get back from the insurance) to get your initial money back!
With that said, I can't understand how any bike can be sold in your country if they're all worth twice the price you'd pay in any other european country.
Because at any rate, even if your enginer would break after three years there is STILL no way it would cost you more in the end having it repaired, rather than having paid double price right from the start.
You would have to totally trash your bike (and then I am not even counting the money you'd get back from the insurance) to get your initial money back!
With that said, I can't understand how any bike can be sold in your country if they're all worth twice the price you'd pay in any other european country.
Wonder B wrote:
Well, quite simply because currently there's no way around it as noted before. You want it, you pay. Or you can walk.
Some European countries have as high or even higher vehicle taxation. If you count the overall "tax effect" on private transportation, I think Denmark has the highest taxes, Ireland is second and Finland "only" third, The Netherlands coming fourth according to some statistics I found.
Well, quite simply because currently there's no way around it as noted before. You want it, you pay. Or you can walk.
Some European countries have as high or even higher vehicle taxation. If you count the overall "tax effect" on private transportation, I think Denmark has the highest taxes, Ireland is second and Finland "only" third, The Netherlands coming fourth according to some statistics I found.
I'm quite willing to believe that (Nl being 4th)...
How hard is it for you to have a fictitious live across the border in what used to be the USSR, buy and keep the bike there for the required time, and then decide to take it home to your principal residence? I kind of agree that some form of lifetime warranty isn't worth paying twice the price, but keeping the bike stored (during your winter period
)in order to have a 50% rebate seems like an OK trade-off for me...
How hard is it for you to have a fictitious live across the border in what used to be the USSR, buy and keep the bike there for the required time, and then decide to take it home to your principal residence? I kind of agree that some form of lifetime warranty isn't worth paying twice the price, but keeping the bike stored (during your winter period
)in order to have a 50% rebate seems like an OK trade-off for me...RJVB wrote:
The authorities are aware of all these scams. in order to personally import ( ie pay no import tax) you have to prove you were actually resident in that other country ( bank statements, utility bills, tax details etc) if you drive on a non local plate, the law notice and you will be pulled, then fined and have to pay the tax anyway. who wants to look over your shoulder all the time? In Ireland its 30%, I bought my bike new in northern Ireland, then wrote a cheque for €3K to get an republic of ireland plate on it, 20kms down the road. Dont forget, however, its second hand value is also reflective of the new price in this jusistiction...
I'm quite willing to believe that (Nl being 4th)...
How hard is it for you to have a fictitious live across the border in what used to be the USSR, buy and keep the bike there for the required time, and then decide to take it home to your principal residence? I kind of agree that some form of lifetime warranty isn't worth paying twice the price, but keeping the bike stored (during your winter period
The authorities are aware of all these scams. in order to personally import ( ie pay no import tax) you have to prove you were actually resident in that other country ( bank statements, utility bills, tax details etc) if you drive on a non local plate, the law notice and you will be pulled, then fined and have to pay the tax anyway. who wants to look over your shoulder all the time? In Ireland its 30%, I bought my bike new in northern Ireland, then wrote a cheque for €3K to get an republic of ireland plate on it, 20kms down the road. Dont forget, however, its second hand value is also reflective of the new price in this jusistiction...
Well, I admit to not being an expert, but I will still claim that anyone who knows anything about the administrative culture and apparatus of the former USSR will pay a lot of money and make considerable efforts to have absolutely nothing to do with it! 
The vehicle taxation was established as a temporary measure right after WW2! :angry:
You can rest assured that over the decades all possible ploys to "screw the system" have been thoroughly researched.
The legislation is hideously complex because all the possible loopholes have been thoroughly plugged and paved over with concrete.
There was a thread on this matter on a Finnish forum a little while ago and I got a headache halfway through the first page.
The vehicle taxation was established as a temporary measure right after WW2! :angry:
You can rest assured that over the decades all possible ploys to "screw the system" have been thoroughly researched.
The legislation is hideously complex because all the possible loopholes have been thoroughly plugged and paved over with concrete.
There was a thread on this matter on a Finnish forum a little while ago and I got a headache halfway through the first page.
> The vehicle taxation was established as a temporary measure right after WW2!
I suppose you have a quip about how in this case, temporary probably means until WW3 ... :-/
I know of some people here in France who always buy their cars in Luxemburg. I guess they get French plates, and thus pay the taxes that are due, so there still must be a profit for them somewhere.
I also know there are foreigners who live here, never change the plates on their car and never have any trouble with that...
I suppose you have a quip about how in this case, temporary probably means until WW3 ... :-/
I know of some people here in France who always buy their cars in Luxemburg. I guess they get French plates, and thus pay the taxes that are due, so there still must be a profit for them somewhere.
I also know there are foreigners who live here, never change the plates on their car and never have any trouble with that...
Brian UK
GT Reference
RJVB wrote:
I know that if I were to buy a vehicle from outside the EU, and import it to the UK, it is treated as new for tax purposes unless it is more than 6 months old, and has travelled more than 6000 km.
Regarding your second point, insurance is more difficult on a vehicle kept, but not registered in France.
By the way, as far as the seller being responsible for the item sold, this is also true in the UK, and there is no specific time limit under our Sale of Goods Act, though in practice it is very difficult to claim after the warranty period without taking the case to court.
There are variations in the new price of vehicles throughout europe. In the UK, it was not uncommon for vehicles to be imported from Belgium. Nederlands, and Eire at one time. VAT rates also vary.
I know that if I were to buy a vehicle from outside the EU, and import it to the UK, it is treated as new for tax purposes unless it is more than 6 months old, and has travelled more than 6000 km.
Regarding your second point, insurance is more difficult on a vehicle kept, but not registered in France.
By the way, as far as the seller being responsible for the item sold, this is also true in the UK, and there is no specific time limit under our Sale of Goods Act, though in practice it is very difficult to claim after the warranty period without taking the case to court.
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
Brian UK wrote:
I know that if I were to buy a vehicle from outside the EU, and import it to the UK, it is treated as new for tax purposes unless it is more than 6 months old, and has travelled more than 6000 km.
[/quote]
If needed, a few of us can take care of a Stevio for you for over 6 months and be sure it gets the 6000 km needed.
Just to help out, you know. :laugh:
I know that if I were to buy a vehicle from outside the EU, and import it to the UK, it is treated as new for tax purposes unless it is more than 6 months old, and has travelled more than 6000 km.
[/quote]
If needed, a few of us can take care of a Stevio for you for over 6 months and be sure it gets the 6000 km needed.
Just to help out, you know. :laugh: