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T3 brake bleed

F

fossilrder

Tuned and Synch'ed
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This topic has probably been covered before(maybe many times). I have rebuilt the master cylinders (both front and rear) on several Guzzis I have had over the years and have never had this problem before. I cannot get the two calipers that are operated by the rear master to bleed. Both calipers and the master have just had kits put in them but, even with a vacuum pump on the bleeders, I get only the smallest amount of brake fluid out of the rear caliper, along with a bunch of air, nothing out of the front. Any suggestions? Thanks, Steve
 
fossilrder said:
This topic has probably been covered before(maybe many times). I have rebuilt the master cylinders (both front and rear) on several Guzzis I have had over the years and have never had this problem before. I cannot get the two calipers that are operated by the rear master to bleed. Both calipers and the master have just had kits put in them but, even with a vacuum pump on the bleeders, I get only the smallest amount of brake fluid out of the rear caliper, along with a bunch of air, nothing out of the front. Any suggestions? Thanks, Steve
Click to expand...


Be sure you are getting a full throw on the rear master and the pedal isn't blocked by anything. Also I think the T3 has a bleeder at the the proportioning valve so if there bleed that first. When using a vacuum bleeder I use Teflon tape on the bleeder nipples. This prevents sucking air past the threads.
 
Thanks John. Hadn't thought about a bleeder there. And I read about the tape in the manual for the vac pump, but haven't done it. I think I'm getting full movement at the pedal/ master but will double check that too. I've just never had this problem.? Regards, Steve
 
Worked on it a little more today. Put Teflon tape on bleeder threads and it made no difference. The proportioning valve doesn't have a bleeder. When I pulled the vacuum on the rear and front bleeders and cracked them open, the gauge on the vac pump didn't even move. It's like the whole system is blocked.? It appears the master shaft is getting a full stroke BUT... I took the master back apart and I might have gotten the seal and metal cup that holds the piston in the bore in backwards.? I can't find an exploded view that really shows it well enough to tell. I am always at a loss as to the best way to remove the piston, and replace the washer/cup that holds the piston in the bore, without damaging the delicate pieces. I assume there are special tools for this. I usually use a 3"-4" long piece of steel welding rod (I think it is 1/8"dia.) placed through the small hole at the outlet end of the master to tap with a hammer and it drives the assy. out pretty easily with no damage to anything. The problem is driving/pressing the assy. back in without damaging the parts around the shaft of the piston that sticks out. I might be missing something simple, but this has always been a mystery to me as to the best/proper way to do this when rebuilding these master cylinders. Thanks again for the reply. Steve
 
The open side of the cup should go toward the brake line. The pressure of the fluid expands the cup so it seals on the bore of the cylinder. The piece of welding rod is probably what most use. However I've gotten to the point with old master cylinders that I just replace them. The bore is usually suspect. The difference in cost and time isn't worth trying to rebuild the old ones. A new replacement is under $200.00.

If your vacuum gauge doesn't drop when you open the bleeder are you sure you didn't get tape over the bleeder holes? If there is no movement of anything I would check the proportioning valve. That is the only point where the system can be blocked unless the rubber lines have gotten so bad. I call these situations the joy of working on old iron. Usually when I get something this difficult, I just go ahead and replace lines and all. This would be a good excuse to go steel braided lines and all.
 
Pressing the retaining ring back into the master cylinder is easily done with an appropriately sized deep-well socket and a large bench vise or press. The socket I use is a Craftsman 14mm 6 pt. 3/8" drive deep well.
 
Thanks Guys. Yes, The deep well socket is what I have used as well but the last time I must have used a size that didn't fit as good and it tore the final rubber seal. Guess I should have been a little more careful! John, the "cup" I was referring to is the little metal cup that goes in with the final seal around the shaft that the lever pushes. Hope I am clear on this.? I know how the rubber "cup" works. Some repair kits I have used had only metal "washers" that pressed in to hold the final seal and piston in the bore, but this kit has a cup shaped "washer" that presses in to retain everything. A bit confusing.? Back at it today to see what I can find. I will also check the proportioning valve. I have thought about delinking the brakes and this might be the time, if I am going to do it. I realize that is a much discussed subject with Guzzi folk but, being an old off road racer for decades, I really like knowing that I have ALL the front brake power where I want it and knowing exactly what the rear brake pedal gives me. Just my preference. Thanks again. Steve
 
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