V7 Racer X

[GTM®]

V7 Racer 'X' - Fun (likely non-production) prototype, including leading shoe drum brakes... with a top view of the new motor at the bottom, including the single throttle body and new air box location.

 

[Ad B]

Hi,

V7 Racer 'X' - Fun (likely non-production) prototype, including leading shoe drum brakes...

These drum brakes is only a nice looking gimmick for this EICMA 2011.
From this side you can see the drum brakes AND a hydraulic master brake cylinder at the right handle.



Pauldaytona spoke to a few Guzzi guys there:
ME: "Look at Anima Guzzisti forum? may be an excellent opportunity for a fruitful interaction with Guzzi owners and potential buyers"
HIM: "Absolutely not. We do not care
to another Guzzi guy:
At the Guzzi stand this afternoon.
Me: "but the V7 with drum brake is a joke, right?"
The official Guzzi: "Of course, it's a gimmick for the show"
Me: "Then you should write that it is a joke, because people are taking it seriously "
Him: "Come on, however, in recent years we have made ​​so many good things"
I, closing: "I go to the Guzzi for 30 years, I certainly do not lack the patience, good luck"

Arrogance, not so smart (stupid...). That's what I think about that Guzzi guys now, downthere.
Moto Guzzi should think better, more before they go there and just put a few funny motorbikes onto the stand.

Paul, I hope it's allright I used your tekst from the dutch forum here.

Ad B

 

[Phang]

Hi,

V7 Racer 'X' - Fun (likely non-production) prototype, including leading shoe drum brakes...

These drum brakes is only a nice looking gimmick for this EICMA 2011.
From this side you can see the drum brakes AND a hydraulic master brake cylinder at the right handle.

Ad B

I was expecting to see a twin cable puller front brake lever too.

It could be a hydraulic actuated cable puller underneath the tank.

If you still remember those old BMW airheads, they have cable type front brake lever at the handle bar but a hydraulic front disc brakes. Guzzi probably reverse what BMW did in mating cables and hydraulics :lol:

 

[cytocycle]

single throttle body? to cut costs?

 

[sign216]

single throttle body? to cut costs?

Undoubtably to cut costs. The dual throttle bodies (TBs), the linkage, and synching them where not cheap. They made up the performance loss with improvements elsewhere. In another forum people thought that going to a single TB was a performance gain. I argued to correct their opinion, with mixed results.

 

[Greyo]

V7 Racer 'X' - Fun (likely non-production) prototype, including leading shoe drum brakes...

Actually, only one brake - notice they kept the disc brake on the rear; that arrangement would be definitely "original" in a production model :S

 

[kiwi dave]

What struck me when I saw this picture was the long distance between the throttle body and the inlet valves. Can't imagine this would be good for performance. And I imagine there could be a delay in the throttle response; whether it is noticeable, only those who have ridden it would know.

Wasn't there an issue with the single TB on the Quota's? I heard somewhere that the uneven demand from the 90 degree motor made it impossible to obtain smooth running at low revs. I'm sure I'll get jumped on by irate Quota owners for this remark!

 

[gstallons]

You NEED a throttle body for each cylinder. At least I would have put 2 on it.. Only an engineer knows for sure.

 

[john zibell]

What struck me when I saw this picture was the long distance between the throttle body and the inlet valves. Can't imagine this would be good for performance. And I imagine there could be a delay in the throttle response; whether it is noticeable, only those who have ridden it would know.

Wasn't there an issue with the single TB on the Quota's? I heard somewhere that the uneven demand from the 90 degree motor made it impossible to obtain smooth running at low revs. I'm sure I'll get jumped on by irate Quota owners for this remark!

The single TB on the quota wasn't. It actually has two butterfly plates that were a bugger to set up correctly. Once set up properly, it performed well. I'm not so sure the single butterfly on the new bikes would be all that detrimental. I believe the placement of injectors would be more critical. If Guzzi went to a single injector near the butterfly, then that might diminish response, but with two lambda sensors I'd bet two injectors are being used.

 

[kampe]

At the GMG this year i saw a single diskbreak incased in a big rim wich looks like a drum break.

 

[Carl Allison]

If the injector were located with the throttle body at the end of those long runners, the time for the changed fuel/air charge to reach the cylinders would indeed affect throttle response. On these new heads, the injector is at the cylinder port so the change in the amount of fuel injected should be immediate. The transit time of the change in air pressure from the throttle body butterfly plate might lag a bit but that will be dependent on the ram air pressure (if any) and of the volume of air drawn through by engine action. This setup shouldn't be bad throttle response wise but I doubt that it would have the response of the dual throttle bodies located very near the inlet of the cylinder head. OTOH, how much response to you expect out of a 48HP engine? This should be a pretty good compromise. We'll just have to wait and see what reality presents us when it's finally evaluated.

 

[Ad B]

Hi,

If the injector were located with the throttle body at the end of those long runners, the time for the changed fuel/air charge to reach the cylinders would indeed affect throttle response. On these new heads, the injector is at the cylinder port so the change in the amount of fuel injected should be immediate. ...
We'll just have to wait and see what reality presents us when it's finally evaluated.

If you look at the last picture of Todd, we'll see the injectors very near to the heads.
So throttle responce will be oké, I think.
A very good and well know Guzzi tuner, Millepercento, is using the single throttle body system for several years now.
As well on his 1420 cc water cooled 2 valve engine as on his Alba (1200 cc 4v).
I think Moto Guzzi is using his knowledge to use it on there own motorcycles...
Here are a few pictures of Milleperceto's bikes.





Ad B

 

[sandy]

Corsa Italiana are a UK based Guzzi specialist who are pretty much THE authority in the UK.
I just received this email from them after enquiring about the possibility of ordering that seat unit from the Racer X.


Maybe one day we'll be able to. From what we can work out the bike shown in
Milan (an prob NEC) is still in development, if it goes in to full
production that version of the Racer won't be available until 2013 at the
earliest, they have already said that it probably won't feature the drum
front brake! Whether or not they put the Racer out with the new engine in
the meantime we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Mi_ka]

I suppose this setup is better for low-mid response setup given the lengthier passage from the butterfly to the cylinder which should be in tune at lower pumping frequencies towards the lower part of the rpm range.
It also looks like the Y cylinder feeding pipes have equal trimmed lengths to compensate for the small cylinder placement difference which I suppose is so exactly for keeping the tuning frequency equal for each passage, right?
I suppose there will be some difference felt if heavily modulating the throttle in the higher part of the rpm spectrum but this should be no problem for most of the target group of the clients while steady on WOT there should be no real difference for close to 50 hps - V7 is supposed to be an easy sweet bike, ain't it?

 

[Carl Allison]

<snip>

The airbox is off-set to the left a bit to give room for the battery which is on the right side of the airbox. It looks as though changing the air filter will be less of a chore as well.

 

[Mi_ka]

Looking again at it, maybe the off-the-shelf butterfly assembly is supposed to be placed vertically and MG place it horizontally so its output becomes right (instead of down) bended and that's the reason for the lack of complete symmetry and not the tiny tuning difference.