V7 special idle problems

[Alan Lake]

Hi all, new on here just purchases a 2013 v7 special with 2913 miles on the clock, and had some of the problems regarding erratic idle and stalling when pulling away worse when cold, so decided to tale my bike to a Guzzie dealer for a check up, as no service history, or owners manual came with the bike. What the mechanic found out so far was MG uk has no records of any service been carried out, and the air filter was dirty so that was renewed, And a new remap was available as it was not done at 1st service, and R/H valve clearance's were possibly tight, The mechanic did the map upgrade and re set something to do with the self learning????Took the bike out for a test ride and was not happy at all with how the bike was behaving, and recommend a full service, as there is no history of anything being done ( however the seat lock key is different from the ignition key, so looks like the seat lock had been replaced)The mechanic further quizzed me regarding what problems I was having as he suspects the throttle body needs replacing, as the bike will idle but as soon as you open the throttle slightly the engine dies he did quote some figure as to what was happening and it made sense, if you opened the throttle from idle to quarter or above the engine would not die. The bike has been booked in for a service and throttle body to be fitted in 2 weeks time as the are very busy at the moment, the mechanic was not happy about me riding the bike home as I live 50 miles from the dealership, and said the bike would be almost unrideable, yep he was not wrong after numerous stalls trying to pull away and finally getting off on 6000 revs, trying to keep to a constant 30mph at 3000 revs the bike was bunny hopping and lurching like crazy, it was fine on the open road at 60-70 mph, but come to a junction stalling and lurching, restarting the bike it would idle a t 4000 rpm, and then settle down at about 1200rpm. As the bike is over 3 years old there is no manufactures warranty, I don't mind paying for a full service as you have to start somewhere, and I hope the new throttle body sorts out the running and I get the bike I want and not the start of a expensive replace this replace that> I will keep you posted once the above work has been carried out and my wallet emptied. Bloody emission regs, that's the cause of all our problems

 

[andyb]

Hi Alan.
Welcome.
Hopefully the new throttle body will sort it out - mine suddenly had a very fast tickover which then cured itself the next day, but the throttle body was replaced and no further problems.
AndyB

 

[Kev M]

Alan, I'm a little skeptical of the shop. If they replaced the air cleaner and adjusted the valves there really nothing more in a regular service that should effect the idle. You're really talking about diagnostics, which should start with things like mechanical and electrical checks of components and systems. I'm not convinced they've done that if they are jumping to expensive throttle body/ECM replacement.

I'd want to exhaust those options first. Throttle body/ECM replacement should be the method of last resort.

Good luck with the repair.

 

[andyb]

Hi Kev,
What exactly are the 'mechanical and electrical checks of components and systems' that you are thinking of?

The only other checks I can think of are:
- checking regulator voltage correct
- disconnecting the lambda sensors in case one is faulty so the ECU goes into some default mode?

Regards
Andy

 

[Kev M]

Well, I'd start looking for mechanical things:

Throttle body/intake manifold seals. Is there an air leak somewhere?
Throttle cable routing/binding?
On the electrical side I'd want to see:

Trouble codes?
Examine electrical harnesses/connections. Pinched wire? Loose connector? Bad connection?
Crankshaft position sensor signal (preferably while the trouble is occurring)?
Sure Charging system voltage (again while the trouble is occurring)?
The lamba sensor thing is not a bad idea. There are some ways to do that without physically disconnecting the sensor (on the software side).

I believe the OP is already stated the battery connections are all clean and tight (I'm presuming he checked both sides, and didn't just look at the outside, but removed them and cleaned them to make sure corrosion isn't hidden at the concealed contact point).

And I believe he said that they already reset the valves and installed a new air cleaner.

In the end I'm not saying it is NOT the throttle body/ECM, I'm just saying that I'd want to be more certain I've eliminated everything else I could think of before spending that much on a replacement part.

 

[andyb]

Hi Kev,
Agree with you - best to try the cheap and easy things first!

What equipment Is needed to electronically disconnect the lambda sensors? And would it let me change other parameters of the engine?

I am old school - used to carbs and non-ECU engines - and my V7's engine is very different to those of my SR500 and BMW R100R, and the rotax 912 engines that I work on, where I can easily make small changes to mixture / tickover etc. I am on a learning curve with this bike and find the fact that I have to use a dealer for diagnostic / tuning annoying.

It does seem that away from the ECU / throttle body that there are actually very few things it is possible to check or adjust (on a low mileage unmolested bike) and that the engine is really quite simple. For me, however, the ECU / throttle body will always be a magical black box which I suspect I will never be able to do anything with. Such is progress.

There is a rolling road test bed near me that I could put my bike on to check the fueling throught the rev range - but why bother if I can not make any adjustments?

AndyB

 

[sign216]

I suggest the shop connect an electronic scan tool to check the fault codes and component failure, but it seems like they must have done that if they loaded a new map.

This is a 2013 with the "new" engine, right? Does this mean a throttle body (TB) replacement includes the small ECU that's part of the TB? I hesitate about the repair, because from my view (a distance) it sounds like the mechanic is making a shot in the dark. But he's up close w the bike, so he must know.

 

[Vagrant]

don't disregard the main ground strap at the engine housing. my 2015 was very corroded when brand new.

 

[Alan Lake]

Hi Alan.
Welcome.
Hopefully the new throttle body will sort it out - mine suddenly had a very fast tickover which then cured itself the next day, but the throttle body was replaced and no further problems.
AndyB

Hi well the throttle body was replaced, rode 40 miles home no problems, checked the valve clearance's cold the next day, r/h exhaust clearance a smidgen tight, but reset it, went for a 10 mile ride no problems. Put bike away, went to go out on the bike today started up ok, but stalled on pulling away, motor took some cranking to get it going again then ran at 5000rpm on tick over before slowing down and dying, started up again engine revving like mad, tried to ride it to clear its self out, but engine revving high on idle then stalling. AAArah back to square one, any suggestions anybody would be appreciated,

 

[Vagrant]

as everybody stated it appears the mechanic took a shot in the dark and didn't have a clue.
if here and paid by credit card I know what I would be doing. get your money back now and find somebody that knows what they are doing.
what is it charging? if over 15.5 it could have cooked cam sensors, computers etc. it needs to be hooked up to a computer and I bet the culprit shows up.

 

[Alan Lake]

Hi yes was £410 paid by credit card, have been reading on here about loose plug wires so will check them, and I also have the blued silencer, the R/H one is worse, my problem is the dealer I took the bike to is 40 miles from home and other dealers are 70 and 100 miles away, one of the problems of Guzzi ownership, dealers few and far away. When I initially took the bike in for a check up as I was not happy with the running of the bike, the mechanic said the bike needed a updated map and reset the tps I think, after that its got a lot worse, 2013 bike with 3000 miles on it its not good enough, and has spoilt my experience of the bike, my last bike a 2009 triumph Bonneville never missed a beat in 15000 miles.

 

[Wisconsin v7 Racer]

Hi yes was £410 paid by credit card, have been reading on here about loose plug wires so will check them, and I also have the blued silencer, the R/H one is worse, my problem is the dealer I took the bike to is 40 miles from home and other dealers are 70 and 100 miles away, one of the problems of Guzzi ownership, dealers few and far away. When I initially took the bike in for a check up as I was not happy with the running of the bike, the mechanic said the bike needed a updated map and reset the tps I think, after that its got a lot worse, 2013 bike with 3000 miles on it its not good enough, and has spoilt my experience of the bike, my last bike a 2009 triumph Bonneville never missed a beat in 15000 miles.

I would also recommend checking your vr too see if it reads high and could be frying stuff. Maybe your problems are what Todd says can happen over time if it's too high.

 

[andyb]

Alan
Does your bike have the single throttle body?
Earler bikes had twin throttle bodies and 2013 was around the time they changed.

My bike has the single throttle body and I have done around 1000 miles since i had the original problem of high revs at start up, So I am pretty happy that the new tb and ecu sorted it out.

I have read that if the bike stalls then you need to leave it alone for 10 secs for the ecu to sort itself out before restarting to avoid problems like you have experienced but I do not know if this advice is correct or not.

I am in the East Midlands and am happy with the dealer to the South of me who replaced the tb and ecu

AndyB

 

[RC Cole]

Otay, I was in a similar situation. The Verde did not want to idle. Sometimes it would just cut off and sometimes it would go to 4000-5000 rpms.
Researching and the symptoms led me to think that I had a bad valve or air leak on the evap system. So chasing that down revealed that the PO had done a delete on the EVAP. The hose up to the rubber intake manifold had been folded over and covered. I removed the cover and plugged the hose and this didn't change anything. I noted some oil residue in the airbox and crud on the back of the throttle plate when viewed through the airbox. I removed the rubber manifold and cleaned it out with carb cleaner then sprayed carb cleaner on a rag and cleaned the inside of the throttle body and throttle plate. Once reassembled it ran perfectly without any issues at idle.