Weird rattling noise from new V7 850 Special

[spambacon]

Hi Guys, i just got my bike back from the first service at the dealer, it got a new software, valve adjustment etc.
The bike is running great, better than before as the software seemed to fix the flat spot between 2000 and 3000 RPM. Also it is a joy to rev past 4500.

However there is a weird metallic rattling coming from the bike, mostly from the right cylinder. It is almost sounding like some metal vibrating against something at the frequency of the motor reving, a little bit like a loud sewing machine.

It is only there when the engine is warm, if i ride the bike cold then there is no noise during the first couple of kilometers, only the exhaust and the whirring engine.
I tried to locate it and it seems to come from the right cylinder. At least it is loudest there.

The noise was there before service but not so loud, at least i think so, but the is hard to say, as i focus on it now, as i expected the noise going away with valve adjustment. I told the tech about the noise before the service but he told me that some more noise is to be expected, due to the air cooled engine.

I have made a video after stopping mid journey to home, i reved the engine and tried to catch the sound, but it is a little bit louder during driving. I can hear it clearly till about 80 Km/h then the wind noise gets too loud.

 

[john zibell]

Check that the nuts at the head for the exhaust are snug. I don't know off the top of my head what the torque values are for your exhaust nuts so look that up before you try to tighten them. Also look along the exhaust pipe and see if it is close to a hard part. You may need to loosen up the system and move components away from where they can make contact.

 

[spambacon]

I'll check that as soon i get adapters for my torque wrench, as i only have sockets and i need "Hahnenfussadapter" (sorry i dont have a translation) to get behind the lambda probes and the one on the right is so stripped that i cannot get my socket over it.

The outer bolts on both headers are stripped from factory it seems, it looks like very soft material is used. The torque specs ask for 25 NM as far as the service manual says.

I was able to check one header bolt on the left side with a socket and i was able to fasten it somewhat before my torque wrench clicked, so it seems that it was definitly to loose. The other ones are due when the adapters arrive on saturday.

The exhaust doesn't seem to touch the frame anywhere except where it needs to.

EDIT: So as far as i understand from your post, this is not normal noise?

EDIT2: Spelling

 

[john zibell]

Correct, vibration noise like that is not normal. Sounds like you have a warranty claim for new parts, like the studs for the exhaust clamp. Google says it is a "buttercup adapter".

 

[spambacon]

Correct, vibration noise like that is not normal. Sounds like you have a warranty claim for new parts, like the studs for the exhaust clamp. Google says it is a "buttercup adapter" I'm thinking a universal? static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/21GR83_AS01?$adapimg$&hei=536&wid=536

Yes, they ordered some new nuts (sorry i confuse nuds, screws and bolts in english), as the original ones were stripped. The studs (the points onto the the nuts are screwed?) seem to be fine.

I plan to exchange those for stainless capped nuts anyway, but why not getting the original ones first. They don't seem to have checked the torque of the bolts during inspection though.

I don't think they got my problem, as it is only audible when the engine is hot, if it sits for a few minutes, the rattling noise goes away, until i ride it for a couple of hundred meters, then it slowly reappears. When i tried to demonstrate it didn't really showed and they talked about valves anyway.

Because of that, i first thought about valves, as the engine needed to be hot for the noise to appear.

If it is really a problem of loose screws, nuts or bolts, i am willing to do the work myself, as it really is a 5 minute job to check the torque which they used. I just don't hope that there is an engine problem.

The adapter is looking like this:

 

[Vagrant]

My ears are shot so I can't hear it. But, it's either a heat shield on the ex pipe is loose, touching the frame, or you're riding at too low of an RPM or the gas isn't high enough octane. All very common. Try riding at 4000+ RPM and I bet it's gone.

 

[spambacon]

My ears are shot so I can't hear it. But, it's either a heat shield on the ex pipe is loose, touching the frame, or you're riding at too low of an RPM or the gas isn't high enough octane. All very common. Try riding at 4000+ RPM and I bet it's gone.

Unfortunatly it is present from 3000 revs up, through the entire band, clearly audible at 4500 for example. In fact below 3000 RPM noise becomes more silent.

Gas is 95 Octane (called Super here). I could go one up to 98 Octane but that would require to fill up in the next town, as my gas station here don't sell super plus.

I checked the heat shields and those are fine. I really hope it's those headers. I'll check those as soon as i can.

 

[Raven]

If the header nuts have been loose for a while, the gaskets might be damaged also from the exhaust blow-by and movement of the headers. It happened on my Norge.

 

[Vagrant]

If you hear it while standing there, go back to the 50's and use a long screwdriver with the plastic end to your ear and touch the tip to the rocker cover and everywhere else you can think of. You should be able to identify the area it's coming from that way.

 

[Bill Hagan]

Hi Guys, i just got my bike back from the first service at the dealer, it got a new software, valve adjustment etc.
The bike is running great, better than before as the software seemed to fix the flat spot between 2000 and 3000 RPM. Also it is a joy to rev past 4500.

However there is a weird metallic rattling coming from the bike, mostly from the right cylinder. It is almost sounding like some metal vibrating against something at the frequency of the motor reving, a little bit like a loud sewing machine.

It is only there when the engine is warm, if i ride the bike cold then there is no noise during the first couple of kilometers, only the exhaust and the whirring engine.
I tried to locate it and it seems to come from the right cylinder. At least it is loudest there.

The noise was there before service but not so loud, at least i think so, but the is hard to say, as i focus on it now, as i expected the noise going away with valve adjustment. I told the tech about the noise before the service but he told me that some more noise is to be expected, due to the air cooled engine.

I have made a video after stopping mid journey to home, i reved the engine and tried to catch the sound, but it is a little bit louder during driving. I can hear it clearly till about 80 Km/h then the wind noise gets too loud.

What the others have said.

Of my six Guzzis -- only three still with me (darn it) -- all but one had loose header nuts alnong the way. In at least one case a stud even came loose, i.e., not the nut!

Raven's point about gasket damage is valid, and was, as his, on my Norge.

On a (sort of!) related note, I once heard a new nose on one of my Guzzis when new. My Ballabio, I think.

Was especially noticeable at stops, but was new and omnipresent..

Then, to my bemused astonishment, I realized it was the sound of my ever-aging neck when I turned my head.

Bill

 

[spambacon]

That is reassuring, as long as it is such a simple problem, it don’t bother me. The adapters will arrive on saturday and then i will asap check the nuts,

If anyone has another idea im still open to suggestions and reply, but as of now i have to think positive and hope that this is it. It really sucks a little bit of joy out of this fantastic bike.

I don’t understand how they can ship a bike with stripped nuts though. There has to be some kind of qc that should catch this.

The screwdriver trick is next on my list of the nuts are not the problem.

How likely is the gadget problem? The noise started about 200 kms before the service and the bike has 1600 kms as of now.

 

[scott_m]

You don't need to wait for a Crowsfoot adapter.

If you simply put a standard socket or even a box wrench on the nut and turn slightly, you will know instantly if the nut is tight or not. A few Nm will make no difference. You are looking for really loose nuts which will be obvious.

I hear NOTHING in your video other than normal valve train sounds.

 

[john zibell]

You don't need to wait for a Crowsfoot adapter.

If you simply put a standard socket or even a box wrench on the nut and turn slightly, you will know instantly if the nut is tight or not. A few Nm will make no difference. You are looking for really loose nuts which will be obvious.

I hear NOTHING in your video other than normal valve train sounds.

Scott, with my hearing aids in I pick up a higher frequency vibration that isn't valves. If they aren't in it sounds normal.

 

[spambacon]

Yeah, at first the engine sounds perfectly normal. Whirring, ticking and rumbly. All perfectly normal in my opinion.
Then if the engine gets warm, this strange metallic rattle overlays everything.

The video isn’t great, because it is really pronounced during slower speed riding and less so if the bike just sits there. The bike really needs to be hot.

At first i thought something was rattling against the exhaust, like one of those exhaust covers but those were tight.

Furthermore it seems to come from the right cylinder. I can really hear it, when i put my head over it during driving. Then i can locate it to the right hand side.

I tried to tighten the nuts with a standard socket and i was able to turn one nut relatively easy one turn until it felt tight. I don’t want to overdo it and damage the threads. The lower nut is totally stripped and cannot fit a socket anymore. Don’t know how that could happen, other than using a size 11 socket on this size 10 nut

 

[spambacon]

Scott, with my hearing aids in I pick up a higher frequency vibration that isn't valves. If they aren't in it sounds normal.

I agree that the engine is sounding normal, except the overlaying metallic rattle. If i listen carefully to the colder bike i can hear the valves tick healthy, so i doubt that this would be it. It really is a higher note, metallic sound.

 

[scott_m]

Whenever somebody says "I hear...", my very first thought is, what could cause such a sound as they are claiming?

They only pieces capable of causing a...

sounding like some metal vibrating against something at the frequency of the motor reving, a little bit like a loud sewing machine.

is inside the valve cover or cylinder itself.

This is a dealer issue only.

 

[spambacon]

Whenever somebody says "I hear...", my very first thought is, what could cause such a sound as they are claiming?

They only pieces capable of causing a...



is inside the valve cover or cylinder itself.

This is a dealer issue only.

I really hope this isn’t it, but i will see after tightening the headers to spec.

The dealer is unfortunately one of those „there isn’t a problem and i don’t look for it“ type it seems.
I mentioned the rattle and they immediately dismissed it as normal after my description, air cooled engines are louder and this is to be expected.
I tried to tell them that the bike needs to be hot that it appears and that it is best to be heard when the bike is ridden when it’s hot but they didn’t bother.

There were several small things that i mentioned end everything was acknowledged with an „eye roll“. The eagle on the right side of the tank came loose, the header nuts were stripped, i specifically asked for an update. My guess i am filed under „difficult customer“ already .

Thing is, i don’t want to be nitpicky, when this is normal noise, then i‘m totally fine with that.

I just don’t want to damage the bike riding it.

On a positive note, i have have gotten the warranty extension with purchase so when something breaks, i think i‘m covered.

 

[scott_m]

I understand. I wish you good luck!

 

[spambacon]

I understand. I wish you good luck!

Thank you very much.

As i said, i am mostly clueless, except from maintaining my bandit i don’t do much mechanic works.

I’ll see after saturday/ sunday and then report back to y’all after fastening everything to spec.

If the cause is not the exhaust or some other loose screw, i‘ll wait some time and then report the noise to the dealer again, maybe mentioning that it got louder over time after the service. Maybe that will get them on the bike for a test ride.

 

[john zibell]

Thank you very much.

As i said, i am mostly clueless, except from maintaining my bandit i don’t do much mechanic works.

I’ll see after saturday/ sunday and then report back to y’all after fastening everything to spec.

If the cause is not the exhaust or some other loose screw, i‘ll wait some time and then report the noise to the dealer again, maybe mentioning that it got louder over time after the service. Maybe that will get them on the bike for a test ride.

There is an old saying. Moto Guzzi, making mechanics out of riders since 1921.