1st Gear , high angle downhill Compression , engine stalls

[keremarsan]

Hi ,

I have the experience of 3 times now . If you go downhill with very high slope , if you are in first gear ( going down with engine compression ) , in few time , you loose compression ( engine brake ) and when pulling the clutch , engine stops !!!! now I am sure of the problem because today , it was the 3rd one. Not sure if it concerns only my or few bikes but some injection mapping problem in downhill AND 1st gear is sure ! , be aware of the problem because it can surprise and it can be a safety issue for inexperienced biker !

 

[BDS]

Keremarsan - I don’t know if what you are experiencing is the issue I had, but, from the very first ride, my V100S would die after riding about 6-10 miles - just as if running out of gas, and as you mentioned, often on deceleration. It would restart, but, die again. Turned out to be a faulty rpm sensor. After waiting many days for the part, once fitted, no problems since. Good luck. If you’re having the same issue, it’s an easy fix! My thread on it here:

V100 Failure Issues

Well, I’ll post my “story.” Note - it’s still evolving, but as of yesterday, a plan is in place. As I posted a couple posts back, my Verde came in on 4/21. I picked it up on 4/26. Delighted to have it, I rode it home (~5 mi), did a few things and went out for the first ride (6 miles on the...

www.guzzitech.com

 

[keremarsan]

Keremarsan - I don’t know if what you are experiencing is the issue I had, but, from the very first ride, my V100S would die after riding about 6-10 miles - just as if running out of gas, and as you mentioned, often on deceleration. It would restart, but, die again. Turned out to be a faulty rpm sensor. After waiting many days for the part, once fitted, no problems since. Good luck. If you’re having the same issue, it’s an easy fix! My thread on it here:

V100 Failure Issues

Well, I’ll post my “story.” Note - it’s still evolving, but as of yesterday, a plan is in place. As I posted a couple posts back, my Verde came in on 4/21. I picked it up on 4/26. Delighted to have it, I rode it home (~5 mi), did a few things and went out for the first ride (6 miles on the...

www.guzzitech.com

Thank you for the precious information , my case is not like this , I have only problem in high slope descent , 1st gear ... a former engineer I am , I think , generally in all gears , if you close the throttle AND if you have "some" speed : there is no fuel injection ( to reduce fuel consumption ) but below certain speed , the injectors begins to pulse ...

in my case : high slope descent in 1st gear : suddenly engine loose compression : which can be only possible if the electronic throttle body opens more than idle ( maybe much more ) and when I feel loosing compression I pull the clutch and suddenly injector not pulse as much as the opened throttle body needs : meaning lean exhaust present maybe and stals the engine : in other way ( high slope going up or open gas , there is no any problem and I do not have any engine FI error or any sort of error OR any limp home mode activated in the engine/ no error message at all.

I contacted the service : they told me that some other V100 driver reported this issue , probably an injection mapping update will be coming in the future .... so I protect my self. by not using engine compression in first gear ( when high slope descent ) I pull the clutch and I go down in engine idling and slowing bike with both brakes ... not the best way but it is what it is at the moment ...

You can check this situation easily by finding a high slope descent , staying in 1st gear compression , net step will be loosing compression ( electronic butterfly's opens , no other way to loose engine brake ). and when pulling the clutch , engine dies ... MAYBE this Problem can be related to electronic adjustable engine brake system that we have on the bike ... anyway need some update sure for safety first ... in my knowledge our bikes uses Magnetti Marelli injection system not a very common system , ( maybe problem free ) BOSCH system...

Cheers ,

 

[BDS]

Ahhhh, ok, yes different issue (thx). And, hopefully easily serviceable via electronics. I do a lot of engine braking, but haven’t run into that yet. Let us know how it works out! Best of luck!

 

[GuidoVeloce]

Does this happen in any driving mode? I ask because the description of engine braking in each mode is not clear, and it seems to imply that engine braking is minimal in sport mode.

 

[keremarsan]

Does this happen in any driving mode? I ask because the description of engine braking in each mode is not clear, and it seems to imply that engine braking is minimal in sport mode.

Very good question because I did not try in different modes ! I am using Tour mode that I adjusted Compression and rebound setting of the suspension settings in manual setting M1 ( I use in Manual mode, not using Automatic suspension settings ) , generally , if driving cool , I use my own settings stored in Tour mode , only if I will go fast , I switch to SPORT mode where I did NOT touch suspension or engine brake with semi auto suspension setting default but it is very rare . In every case , I was in Tour mode when that is happened ... After your question , I will try in sport mode if the behavior changes or not if the compression loose and engine dies again or not !!! thank you appreciate for me and everyone to determine maybe the way the problem occurs ! and update about this issue !!!

 

[keremarsan]

Very good question because I did not try in different modes ! I am using Tour mode that I adjusted Compression and rebound setting of the suspension settings in manual setting M1 ( I use in Manual mode, not using Automatic suspension settings ) , generally , if driving cool , I use my own settings stored in Tour mode , only if I will go fast , I switch to SPORT mode where I did NOT touch suspension or engine brake with semi auto suspension setting default but it is very rare . In every case , I was in Tour mode when that is happened ... After your question , I will try in sport mode if the behavior changes or not if the compression loose and engine dies again or not !!! thank you appreciate for me and everyone to determine maybe the way the problem occurs !

Additionally this happens when the descent angle is , I think , can not calculate , approx 25 - 45 degrees ( tangent value approx = 0,60 - 1 ) , in lower descent angels , I did not try this because never I was in 1st gear in lower than 25 degrees descent ( I am estimating the angle , Istanbul is a very difficult city , you have a lot of high slope descent etc .. , not a flat city at all )

 

[Quackfoo]

You sure you aren't over revving the engine? Might be a protection feature kicking in.

 

[keremarsan]

You sure you aren't over revving the engine? Might be a protection feature kicking in.

No , it is high slope very slow descent , the engine rev is about 2500 - 3000 when descending in first gear , and the bike has 1070 km so I set the RPM light to 5500 RPM , I never go up to 5500 at the moment ... initially it was 4200 RPM until first 1000 km so I increase the break in RPM stage by stage...

 

[Chet Van Aken]

Happened to me once in my driveway, steep slope, 1st gear, no throttle, bike died. I don't do that anymore.

 

[Vagrant]

Seeing as my driveway has two sharp S's in fifty feet and has a 40+ degree slope If I lived through the first time I'd be suing the crap out of somebody.

 

[keremarsan]

Happened to me once in my driveway, steep slope, 1st gear, no throttle, bike died. I don't do that anymore.

You need in this case to descend by pulling the clutch and using both brakes ... it is what I do at the moment until problem solved by Guzzi hopefully they will take this in consideration because I written this incident(s) to headquarter guys of Guzzi .
Probably the service will do an update on injection mapping because it is a safety issue !

 

[fotoguzzi]

Your diagnosis does not fly. If the butterflies open how does that overcome the valve action? The cylinder heads control compression not the throttle bodies.
what happens in second gear?

 

[keremarsan]

Your diagnosis does not fly. If the butterflies open how does that overcome the valve action? The cylinder heads control compression not the throttle bodies.
what happens in second gear?

In my knowledge , The electronically controlled throttle body can open to decrease the compression ,our bike have this speciality there is no mechanic relation between the cylinder head and exhaust and emission valves workout and throttle Body to decrease the compression , you need to open the throttle valve and let more air to come into cylinders so it is how you can change your engine brake setting in our bikes ( in automatic mode of our suspension , you can change the engine brake , this is directly related to intake air amout let in the combustion chamber even there is no injector pulses , so no gas into chamber just air ( no combustion ). ... the problem does not occur in second gear but we are talking about high slope descent in city narrow roads so I did not try the same situation in second gear because the bike will surely gain speed in second gear and need to brake ( why using brake pads if you have engine compression option ? ). but I can try it when I find high slope large road and give the feedback about that problem !! cheers

 

[gdp]

Have there been other reports of this same issue?...
I'm 200 miles to my nearest dealer...

 

[keremarsan]

Have there been other reports of this same issue?...
I'm 200 miles to my nearest dealer...

Mr Chet Van Aken experienced it also 6 line upward , he reported the same issue ...