2012 V7 with 4V Heads

[mwrenn]

I have been working on this project for more than a year now. Mainly gathering parts together. I wanted to see if it was feasible to take some Imola heads, machine them out to match Lario heads, and install and run them on my V7 Classic. Tonight I finished lapping in the valves on one head, and installing the valve springs.
I hope to have the project running by next week. It will involve changing the cam and lifters, replacing the pushrods, installing different cylinder studs, locating the cylinder head temp sensor on the replacement head, replacing the pistons, and installing the replacements heads with the different rocker shafts.
In order to give the engine a chance at longevity, I had the cam and lifters DLC coated, I'm using forged cylinder studs from a Volkswagen racing engine. I sourced the valves from Kibblewhite, and will use stock Guzzi progressive valve springs. I found two stock V75 pistons on eBay, I had them lightened and ceramic coated to match the weight of the stock pistons. I also had two custom weight wrist pins manufactured.
For fueling and ignition, I am using the the V7 Classic ECU with a reflash by Todd, I have also added a power Commander V with auto tune so that I can play with the fuel mixtures.
Anyway, here are a few pics I took tonight. I am planning on a Dyno run once it's together and running good.

 

[GuzziMoto]

That is too cool. I have no idea how well that will work or how feasible it is, but I hope it works out well. It sounds like a great idea to me. The wife has a Lario that I really like.
The pistons you came up with, are they flat tops?
Is it a stock Lario cam?

 

[GTM®]

Nice one, I was working on this exact option... as our friend Chuck in Indiana just performed a drone motor'ed hemi-head two-valve motor swap into his Lario, which I hope to see how the heads from his Lario work on the RentAGuzzi V7R.

Assume all of the basic measurements of stud spacing, etc are all in line?

I'll be watching for your updates!

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Woo Hoo! I've been wondering how you were doing on that project.
Just wondering. How does the Lario head match up with the V7 exhaust and intake?

 

[sign216]

Great stuff. I'm following this!

 

[mwrenn]

That is too cool. I have no idea how well that will work or how feasible it is, but I hope it works out well. It sounds like a great idea to me. The wife has a Lario that I really like.
The pistons you came up with, are they flat tops?
Is it a stock Lario cam?

Yes the pistons are flat top for the four valve V75. Stock Guzzi pistons.
I bought a new V7 Classic cam and had it coated. The new cam was not very expensive, I got it from Harpers. The Lario cam wouldn't work.
Here's a couple more pics.


As you can see the cams are quite different. The Lario cam is on the right.
I measured the head volume, piston top volume, deck clearance, and head gasket thickness. With the modified Imola heads that I'm using, they are at 20 cc's. I will have a 9.71 : 1 compression ratio. Stock V7 Classic is 9.6 : 1. If I was using stock Lario heads, they measure 22 cc's, I would have a CR of 9.5 : 1.

 

[mwrenn]

Nice one, I was working on this exact option... as our friend Chuck in Indiana just performed a drone motor'ed hemi-head two-valve motor swap into his Lario, which I hope to see how the heads from his Lario work on the RentAGuzzi V7R.

Assume all of the basic measurements of stud spacing, etc are all in line?

I'll be watching for your updates!

The head gasket and cylinder base gasket are the same part numbers for the two valve and four valve engines, so I am pretty sure the stud spacing will work.
The toughest parts for me to get were the lifters. Got them from Martin Hagerman in Germany. Cylinder studs were a bitch to find as well, wound up with the CB performance forged ones. I had to buy enough to do a Volkswagen engine, so I'll have extras if you need them.

 

[mwrenn]

Woo Hoo! I've been wondering how you were doing on that project.
Just wondering. How does the Lario head match up with the V7 exhaust and intake?

Just based on holding the new head up next to the Classic head, and measuring the stud spacing, the exhaust and intake should line up just fine. An interesting note, the Part number for the Lario exhaust gasket is the same as the part number for the two valve head. However, the Lario exhaust port is quite a bit bigger. I found some gaskets from TLM in the Netherlands that would work. Makes me wonder how many Larios are out there with the exhaust port flow obstructed by the gasket....here's a pic of the two...the proper gasket is 3 mm bigger ID.

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Good catch. Strangely enough, the exhaust gaskets I have are 1/16" smaller than the exhaust port.

 

[mwrenn]

Pulled the exhaust, intakes, heads and cylinders tonight. Planning on pulling the alternator, timing cover, tensioner, timing chain and gears, and cam tomorrow..
Need to locate and install the cylinder head temp sensor in the new head as well.

 

[mwrenn]

Got a lot done on the bike this weekend. Basically got the new studs installed, new pistons put in the old cylinder. An interesting note. The Guzzi v75 pistons I am using have identical top ring grooves as the V7 Classic pistons. The oil ring on the V75 is quite a bit thinner, with no inner spring. I wound up using the V7 Classic rings in the top two grooves, figured they were already broken in to the cylinder.
Got the left head on and torqued, drilled and tapped the right cylinder for the cht probe. I put some epoxy in around the probe for heat transfer. I can also change out the probe if needed. I drilled the cylinder instead of the head, cylinders are easier to replace if needed. Here's a few pics of progress.

 

[mwrenn]

Some other stuff I forgot to mention. The VW studs worked good. Torqued down good and the length was good. I installed the new cam and lifters. The Lario lifters are quite different. Here's some more pics.

 

[GTM®]

Mike, thanks for the continued posts. You're saving me a great deal of time in seeing if they'll work. Now to find a motor or bike for a donor. Please keep the info coming.

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hiya Todd..
I'm following Mike's build, also. It doesn't look feasible for me to just bring some Lario heads out. They are far from plug and play..

 

[Eric LaCruze]

It's not clear exactly by the posts, you're using a 2-valve cam with 4-valve heads? Hard to know for sure considering the difference in displacement between the original motors but typically a 4-valve cam has much shorter duration and less lift than the 2-valve. What you may find is that the cam is way too radical for the engine to run well, and can be so bad the engine won't start at all (ask me how I know this) If you want some serious discussion from somebody intimately acquainted with all these parameters, call Ron Hamp at RHC racing; ronhamp.com If you have some basic information such as displacement, valve sizes, compression ratio and cam timing he will tell you in 30 seconds if you're already in trouble or whether you may be able to make it work.
This is a super-cool build, I want to see it work out but I'd hate to think you get it all together and find it won't run well. You might have to get a custom cam ground.

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

It's not clear exactly by the posts, you're using a 2-valve cam with 4-valve heads? Hard to know for sure considering the difference in displacement between the original motors but typically a 4-valve cam has much shorter duration and less lift than the 2-valve. What you may find is that the cam is way too radical for the engine to run well, and can be so bad the engine won't start at all (ask me how I know this) If you want some serious discussion from somebody intimately acquainted with all these parameters, call Ron Hamp at RHC racing; ronhamp.com If you have some basic information such as displacement, valve sizes, compression ratio and cam timing he will tell you in 30 seconds if you're already in trouble or whether you may be able to make it work.
This is a super-cool build, I want to see it work out but I'd hate to think you get it all together and find it won't run well. You might have to get a custom cam ground.

Thanks for that information. Guzzi being Guzzi, though.. they use the same cam on the Lario as the V65. I degreed both during my Aero engine build. The Aero engine cam, btw, was the same duration with .021" more lift.

 

[mwrenn]

It's not clear exactly by the posts, you're using a 2-valve cam with 4-valve heads? Hard to know for sure considering the difference in displacement between the original motors but typically a 4-valve cam has much shorter duration and less lift than the 2-valve. What you may find is that the cam is way too radical for the engine to run well, and can be so bad the engine won't start at all (ask me how I know this) If you want some serious discussion from somebody intimately acquainted with all these parameters, call Ron Hamp at RHC racing; http://ronhamp.com/ If you have some basic information such as displacement, valve sizes, compression ratio and cam timing he will tell you in 30 seconds if you're already in trouble or whether you may be able to make it work.
This is a super-cool build, I want to see it work out but I'd hate to think you get it all together and find it won't run well. You might have to get a custom cam ground.

Thanks for the input on that, I checked the lift and duration of the Lario cam vs. the V7C cam. The V7C cam, part # 3205 3410 and the Lario cam part # 2705 3362 both carry the following specs: IO 18 degrees BTDC. IC 50 degrees ABDC.
EO 53 degrees BBDC. EC 15 degrees ATDC. Intake and exhaust lift are both .230 inches. The only difference I could find was in the ignition drive on the nose of the cam. Good to know about resources such as Ron Hamp!
Cheers,

 

[mwrenn]

Well, a quick update here. I have the cylinders and heads installed on both the right and left side. I was worried about the pushrods rubbing in the cylinder, as they looked really tight. I checked them with Dykem and saw no interference problems though. I did a valve to piston clearance check with clay. Had plenty of room there. I went to install the intake manifolds, and found a small interference between the manifold and two of the cooling fins. A die grinder took care of that problem. Moving along with the project. It won't be too long now...
Here are a few more pics of the progress. I have to say, the heads look the business on the bike...pretty cool.

 

[mwrenn]

Oh yes, I am going to use a NGK C8HSA spark plug in each cylinder. I have to install different plug wire caps though. I found that the old caps just unscrew from the plug wires, and the replacement caps, NGK as well, just screw right on.
I do not know at this point if I will need resistor spark plugs. Both the old and new caps were 5k ohm resistor caps, but the two valve heads were using a NGK BR8ES spark plug, which is a resistor type. Might have to do some more research.
Also, after I got the intake manifolds torqued on, the throttle bodies lined up and bolted on no problem.

 

[mwrenn]

Thanks Chuck, no need to disassemble for sure. So keep an eye out for another drone motor or Lario heads for me.

Mike, really appreciate you posting this here. Something I've been wanting to try myself.

Yes, it's a cool deal. If mine runs good and you still want to do it, I have found a lot of resources for parts.