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Breva Runs Lean

C

crswa

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
28
Location
Seattle, WA
I have an 06 Breva 1100 and I have terrible problems with knocking in the engine when I pour on the coal. I'm using 92 octane fuel and the bike has about 6K miles on it. It's not a huge problem in day to day driving, but on those occasions when I'm trying to pass someone or accelerate while climbing a hill, it's very pronounced. I got fed up with it last month when I was out with a group of friends and a buddy on a Ninja 250 out-accelerated me because I was trying to keep from damaging my cylinder heads. Talk about humiliating! This can't be normal, can it?

I figure the problem has to be lean fuel mapping in the ECU to comply with emissions regulations. Is there a way to richen the mixture without resorting to installing a Power Commander or something?
 
Be sure the throttle bodies are syncronized. Only do the sync if you have access to Axone or VDSTS to reset the tps. There is an excellent post by Graham on the old forum for this. Be sure to not touch the throttle stop screw on the left TB. Adjust only by moving the linkage adjusting screw. See procedure in: https://www.guzzitech.com/MGGriso/Manual ... iceMan.pdf

If you have VDSTS and it still pings, perhaps increasing the trim for extra fuel may reduce detonation.
 
Just a simple observation based on many lean running guzzi's.... As soon as a PCV is available for the Breva, Norge, Griso, Stelvio etc, all will be fine.....our old FI bikes had issues, a PCIII and a good dynolink tune cured all, bring on the PCV
 
Normally the Breva runs on 95 octane or 98. When you gonna use 95, I think your problem will be salved.
Just give it a try...
Click to expand...

In the U.S., I think 92 octane is the highest available unless you start buying race gas.

In addition to getting the throttle bodies balanced as suggested earlier, what about adding octane boost to the tank after each fill up? Are there any negative effects to consider when using octane additives in a Breva?
 
It's interesting to note that some Brevas have always had the preigniting issue, while others are glitch free. This points to a tuning issue rather than a design one.

After synchronizing and resetting the TPS, the problem should be solved. Increasing the TPS voltage will richen the mixture, but unfortunately there is not an adjustment using the VDSTS software. If you are confident, you could try fooling the system by offsetting the sacred screw before resetting the TPS, and then return the screw to its original position. Note that any warranty is void if you adjust this screw, but I've found sometimes it is essential to get idling speeds correct.
 
Our bikes are italian thoroubreds, would you give a racehorse cheap straw or would you give it the best food available?
I always use the best high octane fuel i can find, and ive never had a problem with pre ignition.
If 92 octane is the best where you live, chuck some octane booster in the tank and you will be amazed at the difference.
It wont do the engine any harm, and eventually you might want to junk the cat and fit a decent exhaust, and thats when you really notice the improvement! :woohoo:
 
Redline octane booster works well on those bikes for which the pinging seems incurable any other way.
 
The US and Europe measure gas ratings differently. 92 here in the US is NOT 92 in Europe, it is close to 95/98 depending on your math. Our problem is the crap they add to it. Without a fuel adjustment tool, PCV etc...the bike will knock.

I have since removed the check valve and all the plumbing crap. the knock is MUCH less, but still knocks some.
 
Has anyone explored the possibility that there may be variability in the fuel pump pressure from one bike to another? 'Seems like that would be a simple explanation for why some bikes knock and others don't, all else being equal.
 
Greg Field wrote:
Redline octane booster works well on those bikes for which the pinging seems incurable any other way.
Click to expand...




Can I presume then that until I get to a service centre to have the TPS etc adjusted, I can just add some octane boost in the short term? Hopefully I will be going on a three day tour next week and I intend to take her in for a pampering our my return (no time before hand). It's quite warm here at the moment and pinging is at it worse in warm weather, fully loaded.
 
do you think it could be down to whats in the fuel?
i'm sure petrol in the US is different from what we have in the UK (apart from being a hell of a lot cheaper :eek:hmy: )
 
londonrob wrote:
do you think it could be down to whats in the fuel?
i'm sure petrol in the US is different from what we have in the UK (apart from being a hell of a lot cheaper :eek:hmy: )
Click to expand...


No idea.

I'm in the land of Oz and have no idea how our fuel compares.

Either way, I will give it a go and report back since I won't have time to get it tuned. Where I live I need a day to get to the service shop and back so that option will need to wait.

cheers

Robert
 
Rob, I didn't realise your were here - I try to use BP 98 octane and the only time the engine gets a bit unhappy is if I crack it open in 6th to pass. Seriously that's the only time I notice anything and easily solved by going down a gear.

We don't have the canisters that the US bikes have and our 98 fuel is about as high octane as it's possible to freely get.

I did however put a tank of 95 with 10% ethanol in a while back by mistake, and theory says that the octane of the ethanol is higher than petrol, and indeed the engine didn't get grumpy but I don't relally know what the overall octane of the mix is.

Seems to me also that your bike might benefit from a different tune up mechanic - where are you?

And in the end the PCV will fix all ills.
 
Mike.C wrote:
Rob, I didn't realise your were here - I try to use BP 98 octane and the only time the engine gets a bit unhappy is if I crack it open in 6th to pass.
Click to expand...

Blimey! That probably means you are travelling at 90+mph to start with to be in 6th ;-)
 
Mike.C wrote:
Rob, I didn't realise your were here - I try to use BP 98 octane and the only time the engine gets a bit unhappy is if I crack it open in 6th to pass. Seriously that's the only time I notice anything and easily solved by going down a gear.

We don't have the canisters that the US bikes have and our 98 fuel is about as high octane as it's possible to freely get.

I did however put a tank of 95 with 10% ethanol in a while back by mistake, and theory says that the octane of the ethanol is higher than petrol, and indeed the engine didn't get grumpy but I don't relally know what the overall octane of the mix is.

Seems to me also that your bike might benefit from a different tune up mechanic - where are you?

And in the end the PCV will fix all ills.
Click to expand...


Hi Mike,

I'm south east of Melbourne at the base of the Yarra Ranges (great riding - fun in the car too!). The only dealer we have left here is the one I use (I won't name and shame incase he spits in my tank next time I need him) - 1 1/2 hrs away.

Anyway, I don't know who has the equipment for tuning and I won't take pot luck. I have asked for referalls but none have been given.

I've been using Caltex premium as it's the only fuel I can get (don't know what RON etc, he's an independant and it is at least 95). I know BP 98 is good but one tank once in a while is useless to me.

I'm going to get brave and start playing with my girl and maybe with the useful info on this forum I won't stuff up. But I will start with the easy stuff first (you know, washing, polishing etc - the wife's getting sick of doing that) and then work my way up.

In the mean time I will need to go back to the dealer to see if he can help.


thanks for the input

Robert
 
Roblatt

What gear are you in when you do that? For real acceleration from 100kph I'd be in 4th gear. 100kph in 6th is only about 3,500rpm and while my bike will pull adequately but gently from 2,000rpm I wouldn't give it the big ask without at least 4,500rpm on the dial.

Even on the rare occasions when I ride without earplugs I've never heard pinging, and I have a screen and flip-face helmet. The somewhat disappointing thing about the Guzzi engines is that they need lots of revs to give their best.

Kiwi Dave how would you rate the NZ 95 octane petrol?

Graham
 
On warm days it pings in every gear at every rev range if I gun it, so I ride relatively quietly all the time. It doesn't like being loaded up. On cooler days (probably below 18-20C) I can give it a bit of stick, but as the pressure builds it starts to ping again. I reckon it's poorly serviced and needs attention because there is no way this should be acceptable.

When I do get it in, in a couple of weeks, I will tell them to richen it up. I hope this won't have adverse effects in the winter like sludging up in the heads.

If any one in Oz knows of a competent mechanic to the east of Melbourne, I'd love to know.

Robert
 
Rob - I've put the word out about a mechanic in your area to AIGOR - should have an answer soon.

From that description something is wrong - Mine NEVER pings like that in lower gears - stick with us, we'll sort it out! B)
 
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