C14 - Secondary Air Supply Pump - SAS

[SheikRamzi]

Is this where you’re placing the cap?

Yes

 

[Alex Kowalenko]

My bike is stock for now but since capping the sas the bike rides so much better and I love being able to roll smoothly to a stop without the engine braking. The only issue is when I first start the bike idle is dropping and bouncing around for about 30-45 seconds until it smooths out. Is this just the ECU getting used to it and will it eventually go away?

 

[GTM®]

My bike is stock for now but since capping the sas the bike rides so much better and I love being able to roll smoothly to a stop without the engine braking. The only issue is when I first start the bike idle is dropping and bouncing around for about 30-45 seconds until it smooths out. Is this just the ECU getting used to it and will it eventually go away?

Can you clear your mind of the "ECU getting used to it" wording? The engine is rubber mounted with a single throttle body. It cannot be balanced, and by design is made to shake (like an HD I suspect). Dumb. There is a cold start circuit that samples the sensors when you key on, IF you let the gauges sweep before you push the start button. Hope that helps.

 

[Gavin]

Completed this conversion with full pump removal........lit up the dash.....but managed to overcome this issue.
Took the OEM fittings from each head...cut and capped off then welded shut before refitting the original fitting back into head

The pump now lives my neighbours carp pond

Thanks
Gavin
The Scottish Engineer

 

[Gavin]

Good morning Oklahoma......the pump sends air to each cylinder head. If you can successfully and safely cap off the fitting at the head....disconnect the pump and the dash light will stay off....basically it thinks all is okay....the ECU that is

But before you do anything....just try it...dis connect the electrical connector feeding the pump...leave it hanging like an abandoned toy and start the engine. Check the dash after a very short ride and then reconnect the connector....you can now view what is lit or not on your dash.
Mine is a Euro4....2017 version where smoking and cutting down trees is not allowed ...your version may be an earlier ....devil may care version?

Don’t just cap off the cylinder heads area and leave the pump connected ...as your pump will still be whirring away in the background...using energy and sapping another X amount from your battery. Best option is to cap off the cylinder head inlets and loop or pig tail the electrical connector....so that all connections are made but the pump is inactive.

This is what I told the mechanic and explained that I wanted the pump removed and no lights on dash....or environmental activists at my door or a MOT advisory......all okay so far

I hope that this helps

Regards
Gavin
The Scottish Engineer

 

[Gavin]

Hello.............following on from my last post, we have some images of the offending item and the fix.
As you can see....if you remove the SAS pump you have image one....it breaks down to the components in image two.

With the end nut now free you can get a metric nut and cap the nut with weld or insert a bolt (couple of threads) and weld up.
Or do what others have done with caps over pipes.....just take note of Todd's comments regarding the occassional engine sneeze!

You can do what method you wish....but this is what you are looking at and what to expect....if you tackle it

I hope that this helps.......by the way mine is a 2017 ECU....and they are all different

regards
Gavin
The Scottish Engineer

 

[Ken Wantje]

So my 16' Audace is all stock and this afternoon I put a rubber cork in the outlet pipe of the pump blocking air to both heads. I have left it plugged in until I can create a dummy plug with same resistance as the pump motor to trick the ecu. I noticed an immediate improvement in sub 3k performance. Seems to idle a bit better as well. Only took a short ride but I will be on it tomorrow for a 100 mile ride for the real test.

 

[TravelinPawPaw]

I just discovered this thread, and I can see no evidence of the metal tubes shown in some of the photos. So maybe my 2017 model was manufactured pre-Euro 4 emissions compliance?

 

[Gavin]

Hello TravelinPawPaw……..it’s there….it’s been on all big block California 1400 engines listed from 2014
It is officially called the Blow by System and is well hidden. It’s job is to introduce clean air into the area just after the exhaust port at each cylinder head. It is there to fool or send a cleaner reading for the exhaust gases at the tail pipe exit.
Search the area to the inside (engine side) of your exhaust cylinder head clamp and it will be there.
Put simply…it is another emission control system…nothing smart but connected to the ECU and it knows if it is working or not. I guess if you are playing with end cans, exhausts, fuelling, mapping and air filters ….it’s another task to be tackled….if you’re not….leave it alone as it’s not hurting anyone.


I hope this helps

Gavin
The Scottish Engineer

 

[PaulDavies]

Hello TravelinPawPaw……..it’s there….it’s been on all big block California 1400 engines listed from 2014
It is officially called the Blow by System and is well hidden. It’s job is to introduce clean air into the area just after the exhaust port at each cylinder head. It is there to fool or send a cleaner reading for the exhaust gases at the tail pipe exit.
Search the area to the inside (engine side) of your exhaust cylinder head clamp and it will be there.
Put simply…it is another emission control system…nothing smart but connected to the ECU and it knows if it is working or not. I guess if you are playing with end cans, exhausts, fuelling, mapping and air filters ….it’s another task to be tackled….if you’re not….leave it alone as it’s not hurting anyone.


I hope this helps

Gavin
The Scottish Engineer

I could be wrong, but I think it was 1st introduced for the 2016 model year. According to what I can see on the web, all new models (e.g. Audace and Eldorado) needed it from 2016, and all existing new bikes (such as Cali) from 2017.

 

[TravelinPawPaw]

Thanks to all for the replies and guidance. I have more closely examined with the help of a mirror, and there ARE ports in the heads just inside of the exhaust outlets, and they are both plugged with recessed allen threaded plugs. So the original owner must have removed the SAS/Blowby system. Whoever did it must have known how to avoid the check engine light.

 

[Moto-Uno]

Chances are good he was a member here . Peter

 

[Vizir]

Paul ,you are right

 

[Brian Moon .]

As many of you know Guzzi has been fitting recent 1400s (like my 2016 Audace) with a secondary air supply pump to help it meet Euro 4 emissions. My understanding is that this injects oxygen into the exhaust to help burn unburnt fuel when you back off the throttle making it run ultra lean. There's a picture of the pump here on the lower left side of the bike. If you grovel around you will see it connects to two rubber hoses that eventually connect to metal pipes that enter each cylinder head just to the inside of the exhaust pipe.

Having previously fitted Todd's PCV/AT300 I noticed during a recent visit to the site that he had added a comment that the hoses should be pulled and the metal pipes plugged. This topic has been discussed at length on the V7/V9 forum and Todd even has a kit to fix it (https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/gtm-secondary-air-supply-sas-block-off-kit.18018/) but I was unaware of this fix for the 1400 so I thought I would give it a try and report my findings.

All I can say is what a transformation for something that is practically free, OK - about $1 for a couple of silicone based caps to fit over the 3/8" inch (1cm) metal pipes.

Idle is now much more rhythmic and stable, no sense of the throttle hunting slightly at a standstill and rocking the bike in the process, it fees more stable at the lights for example.

Throttle response is massively improved in the lower revs ranges. Twist and there's instant response from 1500 rpm onwards - any gear. No sense of a small hiccup or delay while the fuelling has a "think". Just smooth, predictable, linear response to throttle input.

Just as impressive is what happens when you back off slightly, there's no sudden deceleration like you've backed off fully or hit the brakes, just a nice smooth gentle deceleration (like you get in a car for instance) and gives me the confidence to lean the bike over in a sweeper and just make small changes to trajectory based on throttle inputs.

The transition from on/off/on with the throttle is also more predictable. I can coast down to a left or right turn/junction with the throttle closed, turn in and then apply the throttle and get a smooth predictable response that sends me where I want to go. Both of the above would previously have caused small lurches that would upset the suspension and steering geometry.

As a result of the improved throttle response, gear changes are now noticeably smoother due to the revs not dying so quickly when you pull in the clutch and back off the throttle. Previously I'm embarrassed to say I sometimes used to switch to pioggia mode around town for it's gentler throttle response. Not any more, I use veloce everywhere.

The engine also sounds much smoother and more mellow, more like a growl and less rattly (see below) - Note I still have the original exhaust. Any residual pops and farts from the exhaust have completely disappeared. I didn't hear a single one today. The original factory set up ran so lean I had them everywhere. Fitting the PCV/AT300 made a huge difference, but I still used to get them, just less often and a lot quieter, but now I don't have them at all.

I've posted previously about a strange rattle from the engine at around 2500 rpm (https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/strange-rattle-from-the-beast.17431/). This appears to have completely gone !! I knew I was onto something with this when I pulled the hose off the metal pipe on one cylinder and started then engine (just to see which way air was flowing). The noise coming from the exposed metal pipe was a loud "clack" which sounded just like the rattle I had before. I can only think that plugging the end caps and effectively separating the two cylinders has stopped any interaction between them.

Now my Audace has become two bikes. It's a cruiser when I'm feeling lazy and want to take in the view and a sports bike when I want to carve it up.

Any downsides - well I think there's more exhaust fumes coming out of the bike when I start it up in the Garage. If there's any changes to MPG it's not noticeable and to be honest I don't care as it's the best improvement I've made to my bike - Donation to the site coming your way Todd for this great fix.

I would like to ask question that I have asked before, can I remove the secondary air system from my 2016 Moto Guzzi Audace with out bringing up check engine management warning light and if this does happen and what can be done to solve this problem ? Todd was always going to make a kit for the 1400 to solve this problem, is that still happening.

 

[PaulDavies]

I would like to ask question that I have asked before, can I remove the secondary air system from my 2016 Moto Guzzi Audace with out bringing up check engine management warning light and if this does happen and what can be done to solve this problem ? Todd was always going to make a kit for the 1400 to solve this problem, is that still happening.

It's been some time since I experiemented (so don't treat this as definitive), but I seem to recall that unplugging the electrical connection to the SAS pump on my 2016 Audace throws a yellow check light on the dash - this makes senses as it's all CAN connected sensors and actuators so if it cannot communicate with the pump, that's gonna throw the yellow light. I cannot recall what code it throws, but, if memory serves, reconnecting it makes it go away. In the end I left it connected and simply plugged the ports to the exhaust. I'm not aware of any fix for the yellow light

 

[neil jordan]

Hello all …just trying find these hoses and pipes on my 2016 Eldorado
Not sure where the pump is …no port by the exhaust …there is this port with a rubber hose above the intake …is this what need to be plugged ?

Thanks

 

[PaulDavies]

Hello all …just trying find these hoses and pipes on my 2016 Eldorado
Not sure where the pump is …no port by the exhaust …there is this port with a rubber hose above the intake …is this what need to be plugged ?

Thanks

No - that's not it - maybe you don't have one as implied by this photo of an Eldorado.

If you have the pump, it is down low on the LHS of the bike near the gear shifter (see photo below). This is an Audace photo I found on-line - I've circled the pump in red - This is what I have. If so follow the rubber hoses leaving it to the point they meet the metal pipes that join up to the exhaust ports at each cylinder head. You can see one of the narrow metal pipes that need plugging and the connection to the rubber hose that leaves the pump, highlighted by the blue arrow

 

[Gavin]

Neil……don’t go anywhere near the inlet side.
The SAS input is on the exhaust side…..go to the exhaust and with your hand on the exhaust clamp….move inwards towards the engine block and still on the fin section there is a inlet metal pipe and nut.
Look at my images and it will become clear….work back wards from there.

I hope this helps

regards

Gavin
The Scottish Engineer

 

[neil jordan]

No - that's not it - maybe you don't have one as implied by this photo of an Eldorado.View attachment 24812

If you have the pump, it is down low on the LHS of the bike near the gear shifter (see photo below). This is an Audace photo I found on-line - I've circled the pump in red - This is what I have. If so follow the rubber hoses leaving it to the point they meet the metal pipes that join up to the exhaust ports at each cylinder head. You can see one of the narrow metal pipes that need plugging and the connection to the rubber hose that leaves the pump, highlighted by the blue arrow
View attachment 24817

Hmm …definitely not where your is by shifter
Will have to search further ….thx

 

[neil jordan]

Neil……don’t go anywhere near the inlet side.
The SAS input is on the exhaust side…..go to the exhaust and with your hand on the exhaust clamp….move inwards towards the engine block and still on the fin section there is a inlet metal pipe and nut.
Look at my images and it will become clear….work back wards from there.

I hope this helps

regards

Gavin
The Scottish Engineer

Thanks Gavin ....I'll have another look ...i did see your pics but still could not locate ...grrr