Took the bike in for its 12k service earlier this week and to get the oil leak resolved. As suspected it was the drive shaft oil seal thats causing the issues. Motor didnt have to come out of the bike to get to the seal, but it was quite involved. Anyway here I was expecting to be back on the road after a couple of days only to receive a call from the dealership to say it will be out of action as more parts are required. What they said was "the clutch basket posts were cracked and ready to break off", well I must say this came as a surprise as the bikes been running fine. (Saying that, I must admit early on in the piece I did have issues changing from 2nd to 3rd where it seemed to be stuck in gear , resulting in me having to try a few times to change gear, but over the past 9000k's it only happened on the rare occasion so I assumed it was just the gear box freeing up). Now it looks like the bike could be off the road for a while, just as well I've still got the "old sport" which is coming on to 278k's ....might end up making it to 300k's yet.
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Damaged V100 clutch basket
- Thread starterTonym
- Start date
Sounds like the cause for the service bulletin for the clutch o-ring?
I had mine finally exchanged by the shop a week ago.
“Last minute” they said, could work a while still if I would’ve been lucky.
This o-ring seal had deteriorated to the degree that the seal began to be disintegrated and would soon leak hydraulic fluid into the engine, and lose clutch function.
If it was hydraulic fluid or brake fluid in the clutch system I don’t remember, but the o-ring material wasn’t made for that specific fluid.
They showed me a photo of the o-ring which still was attached inside the clutch cover, and the rubber material sort of leaked out from the position(!).
Didn’t ask for the picture at the time, but the reason for the service bulletin was clear!
Anyhow, the symptom would be a clutch failure.
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I am having a hard time reconciling exactly what are the "Clutch Basket Posts". There is a part called the Clutch Drum. On a typical clutch, there would be hollow posts which go trough the center of the springs and then accept the bolts which pass through the pressure plate. The V100 clutch is a good bit more complicated but still, the only posts I can picture would be three posts inside the Clutch Drum which accept bolts that pass through a Disc and Clutch hub. There would be no torque passing through these posts, not sure how they would crack unless,,,,, something like 50 years ago (you read that correctly) 12 year old me was attempting to put new clutch plates in my Yamaha MX100. There were six clutch springs and I managed to break off two of the posts. The bolts were actually screws with a cross head. Of course, I used a standard Philips screw driver and stripped out all six. I don't know where I learned how to use a hand impact screw driver but, in any case, if a hand tool doesn't work, try a hand tool with a hammer! It worked on four and broke the post off on two others. As luck would have it, they were opposite of each other. I had enough mechanical sense to know that being down two clutch springs meant that the lost force would need to be made up, somehow. It never occurred to me to replace the hub. It was held on by a big nut and no way was I going to get that off with a pair of Channel Lock pliers, heck, I don't think the Vice Grips would have worked either. I found some conveniently sized washers and put a couple under the spring retainers of the four remaining springs. Rode it like that for at least another six years. I digress, back to your V100.
I wonder how these posts broke off? I am inclined to think it happened during the disassembly process rather than the you dumping the clutch process.
Hi Racer242,
sounds like your on the money. Got some pic's from the dealer this morning. To quote them:-
"We've sent a case through to Guzzi, just waiting for a response. Bit of a strange one, we haven't come across this issue before but we're looking into it."
Believe replacement part is in stock with importer so hopefully I wont be off the road for too long
sounds like your on the money. Got some pic's from the dealer this morning. To quote them:-
"We've sent a case through to Guzzi, just waiting for a response. Bit of a strange one, we haven't come across this issue before but we're looking into it."
Believe replacement part is in stock with importer so hopefully I wont be off the road for too long
Imagine backing out the bolt that goes in to those posts? You better use two hands on the socket wrench, one to hold the head end in a centered position over the bolt and the other hand to provide the torque. It would be all too easy to break those off instead of turning the bolts. In any case, I can't see how the clutch would have been functional if even one of those was broken.
well after a couple of emails the dealer "fessed up" and said it was their fault the post broke, as you suggested I think it might of happened on disassembly of the clutch.. so it was replaced at no cost to me. Leaking seal also replaced. Clutch working as it should and no sign of oil leak on my 600k trip back from dealer ... I'm happy
Jon_The_Bike_Man
Just got it firing!
I have pulsing in my lever and it feels dead, not a lot of friction zone, engages at the end of throw. I have had a few techs say the clutch is bad other's say it's fine. Could this post issue cause that feeling?
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wallycycle
Tuned and Synch'ed
Maybe consider editing your thread subject title? Gives potential purchasers (me) pause to read that.
I have commented elsewhere saying, the clutch is basically long on drag and short on engagement. Even with the level adjusted to the furthest reach and the lever pulled to the grip, there is still so much drag that you can't get a clunk free shift to first from neutral. Yet, letting the clutch out, there is no engagement until the last 3/16 of lever movement.
I am going to throw something out here, maybe an engineer will comment. The Bellville spring in theory should lend the clutch a longer engagement zone from open to fully locked. The spring would have some mechanical characteristes; it would have a "range" and a "rate". The range would be the height from unladed to flattened. My guess this wouldn't be much more than .1mm. The rate would be the amount of force it takes to flatten. That flattening force should be pretty close to the rate of the other three springs combined. and the range should be small enough so that a pulled in level allows the plates to have free clearance from the Belville spring. Okay, if that reasoning is correct, the Belville spring in our clutches is too thick and the rate is too low. The spring is still dragging even with the lever puller to the bar (Bellville spring too thick) and its rate is too low (clutch provides no discernible engagement as the Bellville spring compresses).
If I am completely wrong about this, please correct.
Perhaps a silly question, but have you had the clutch seal replaced yet?
It’s on a service bulletin, and covers at least first year production.
Have not, I don't believe mine was in the range of VIN's that should need it. It's in for service right now so I will ask them.
So, I have a "new" V100 (non s), 2023 model year. It was a showroom bike from the dealer and got a good deal being a 2023, base model, and on the showroom.
Anywho, I've been riding it more and I too, have noticed, many a times not able to get from 2nd to 3rd, it just seems "stuck". I often do a blip of the throttle, let it wind down, and then with a "harder" lift try to go from 2nd to 3rd which usually works. I use the clutch, I do have the Quickshifter upgrade/update but I'm still more fond of manually using the clutch. I decided to search the forums to see any other folks, and, found your post, plus, other issues with the transmission/gears on the V100.
For example, even with the clutch pulled in, going from neutral to 1st gear, is a definite "clunk", I call the "Guzzi Clunk". The dealer said that's the "personality" of the bike and I noticed the other Mandellos and Stelvios in the showroom did the same thing. Coming from the UJM space, it's a definite "that's not right" knee jerk reaction, as, the shifts on my Honda and Kawasaki have always been super smooth. My Kawasaki has 105k miles to boot.
I reached out to the dealer to see if Campaign Code: PGJZZQ2302 was performed on the bike, but, to experience that 2nd to 3rd "lock out" just as you described, seems to be more alike than a random coincidence.
That’s definitely not right, the clutch and gear works very well.
I have an early 2023 S model, and all been good with gear changes.
However, for some production in 2023 they used a clutch o ring of wrong material, that will dissolve from the clutch fluid.
When it starts to dissolve the clutch and gear operation will be affected, and the clutch will finally give up.
Spontaneously I would think this is your problem.
I don’t know the campaign code, perhaps it’s the one you refer to?
It’s a work with the clutch internal engine parts.
I had my bike in for that campaign last summer.
Moto-Uno
High Miler
Not completely relevant , but a few years ago H-D went to a hydraulic clutch actuator and they were horrible shifting for the
first 1500 km's , but then as the factory mentioned that's the way it is with the components they used . In fact by 2000km most were
shifting like the original ones with cable actuation .
first 1500 km's , but then as the factory mentioned that's the way it is with the components they used . In fact by 2000km most were
shifting like the original ones with cable actuation .
Yeah, its that service bulletin. I reached out to the dealer and that service was performed already on my bike. In further discussion, since this is my first Guzzi, they told me the transmission, wet clutch that uses the engine oil, has a "break in" oil on the bike (bike only had 100 miles on it). The Break In oil is meant to go to the first service check, with is 900 miles. At that point, the break in oil is swapped out with new 20w-50 and the intervals become like every 6k miles thereafter.
As I've read, and as the dealer has noted, the transmission usually settles in around 1.5-2k miles. On a side note, since I upgraded the bike with the Quickshifter, they have had weird things happen between the Quick Shift feature and manual use of the clutch, sometimes the two fight each other. They said, either enable Quick Shift and use it, or Disable it and stay with the clutch, don't do both. Going to try that, turn off QS and see if anything changes.
When my V100 was newer, I missed the 2-3 shift several times. It only happened when I was pulling relatively hard in the revs. It is probable that the main reason for my missed shifts was that I wasn't properly releasing the gear lever after the 2nd gear, so pulling up one more time would't do anything. I've never had that problem on another bike, so I wondered if the spring return stiffness on the lever is less than I was used to, especially on a new bike and when pulling hard. I haven't had the issue in a while, so I don't know if my technique has improved or if the lever is springing back more forcefully now that it has 5000 miles on it.
Mine is exacly the same, '24 Mandello S. How's yours doing? 9600 miles on my bike.
Jon_The_Bike_Man
Just got it firing!
It had the "seal rebuild" done at the last service and its improved but still pulses. I'm now at 26k.
Seal rebuild was done on mine before I picked it up. It kind of looks like the clutch play could be adjusted at the end of the master cylinder but I've not messed with it yet, wanted to talk to a mechanic first, no op yet. I'm used to it. The only prob is my other bikes engage much closer to the grip, so transition is odder than it should be. Not such a bad problem, as long as Sophia's clutch life is intact.
More to report. My clutch always had a noise when disengaged, but it seems to be getting louder. The pulsing I reported before is less but still present. When the bike is in neutral and the clutch is out all sounds normal. But when the clutch is pulled in, there is a noise, kind of a rapid clicking or clacking sound.
I'm kind of worried, closest dealer was clueless about it, anyone else have a similar sound experience???
It's a 2024 Mandello S, and the clutch seal rebuild was done.
I'm kind of worried, closest dealer was clueless about it, anyone else have a similar sound experience???
It's a 2024 Mandello S, and the clutch seal rebuild was done.