Spaceclam
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Howdy folks,
This is the first installment of my coming full review of full matris suspension on a griso 1200 (not that it matters which one)
The process is not complete yet but i feel that what I have so far is still helpful, so out it goes. Please check back on this for updates.
Purpose of the upgrade:
Bad roads and freeways. My g12 is a commuter, and as such I deal with some pretty awful freeways on a regular basis (such as the 405) which have a washboard texture and beat the shit out of cars and motorcycles alike. Additionally, many of the roads around my area are in a state of severe disrepair, but receive little attention. Even when "taken care of", some guy just shovels a bit of asphault into the pot hole (more like a large gravel pit) and hits it with a shovel, leaving a bump rather than a hole, which is only marginally better.
Canyon performance was NOT my goal in this. 99% of suspension info and support seems to be geared toward the racetrack, where we ride on tracks as smooth as glass at very high speeds. I had no problems scraping my kickstand and riding all the way to the sidewalls of my tires using the stock supplied suspension.
The stock suspension itself isn't necessarily bad components, but the parts seem mismatched and unbalanced. I chose the matris R rear, with the full fork upgrade in the front.
Brief conclusion (for those of you who don't care for details)
Matris delivers an excellent product, once properly set-up. The build quality is great, the controls are well thought out and the adjustments are very meaningful. The hydraulic preload in the rear is a huge help when adding a passenger, and the cross-talk between the low speed and high speed compression adjustments is VERY low. Your bike will become much more smooth and responsive all around. If you spend a lot of time on your bike (or ride it really hard) than it is money well spent.
However, that said, dealing with matris is a lot like dealing with moto guzzi. They make great stuff, but they make stupid mistakes and that can become your problem, which they will address whenever they feel like doing so. Take great care to ensure everything is correct before attempting installation, and if it isn't, be prepared to wait a long time. (4 months and counting for me)
The ORIGINAL fronts: There is nowhere near enough damping for the supplied spring, and cranking down the compression simply results in the loss of progressive damping, as you basically just block off the exhaust orifice. The rebound adjustment had a similar issue, but wasn't as bad. Basically, blocking off the exhaust ports to increase damping begins to simulate a damping rod by limiting the amount of fluid allowed to pass through the shims. A heavier weight fork oil could help solve this problem by increasing viscous friction in both the shims AND the orifices at the same time, rather than just exhaust, but it still wouldn't be excellent. This lack of damping combined with "wooden" response resulted in poor performance on bad freeways at speed, and high-amplitude bumps (IE crossing a truck-rutted major street).
The ORIGINAL rear: I weigh about 180lb with gear, and didn't really have a problem with the stock supplied spring. It was light, sure, but it wasn't an issue. I also have a lithium battery which sheds 10 lbs, and is helpful. But the wooden response was still a problem. The rebound control was useless, probably because the shock was valved too heavily for the spring supplied with it.
The MATRIS rear:
I replaced this one first. I purchased this one from Todd as he already had it laying around. It was built for him, not me, but designed for a 185-205 lb rider weight with gear. This was probably my mistake because it was sprung primarily for aggressive canyon riding on the relatively good roads around his place, and he weighs a little more than I do. I was on the bottom end of the suggested weight range (185lb), although still within it, so I figured it would still be good.
The shock itself is superb. Very well damped for the supplied spring, control range is excellent with meaningful adjustments. the high speed compression available on the R version is a godsend for someone who has to deal with bad roads and canyons often on the same day. The hydraulic preload works very well too.
IT took about 1000 miles to break in. It felt wooden, harsh, and awful when it was new. It feels better now. However, the spring is WAY too stiff to use as a commuter, actually reducing the ride comfort significantly from stock. But the canyon performance is outstanding and I have some pretty spectacular snake photos to prove it. Currently, to reduce harshness, I have the high speed damping backed way out, and the low speed is out 2 clicks. But now it's a little bouncy. A weaker spring will resolve this issue and allow me to put some high speed damping back in and I am confident I will like it much more. Getting them to even send correct spring has taken about a month and now I have to wait for it to arrive. I have received word that it is finally happening (although matris is charging $100), but in the meantime I looked into other spring companies, and so far, race-tech seems pretty responsive. In hindsight, if you don't like the supplied spring, I'd skip the hassle of dealing with matris and just talk to race-tech. MAKE SURE that when you order the shock that you are clear about your intended use so that it is sprung accordingly. This was my fault, take my advice and avoid this issue all together.
The MATRIS fronts:
The fronts are very nice indeed. Everything feels much smoother.
Initially, we were going to install the front and rear at the same time. However, matris had supplied the wrong fork caps, which didn't fit. They claimed the fork caps were different between the 2v and the 8v models (which sounds like an excuse to me, but i don't know for sure). We found this out only after putting everything else together and it was a real bummer. It took about 5 weeks to get the proper parts. WHEN YOU GET THE FRONTS, measure the thread size of the fork cap before doing anything. I forget what the correct number is, but Todd has my original fronts so maybe he will chime in.
Once the new parts arrived, they supplied 5w fork oil vs the 7.5w supplied with the other kit. Assuming that this was intentional, we assembled the forks, which was a non-issue this time.
Matris's assembly instructions were really annoying, in that it required you to fill to a certain level, rather than give you a volume. This level included everything but the spring and spring spacer. But the construction of the shock makes it impossible to measure the oil level and then install the spring, so we had to assemble it, measure the oil level, then pour it out and measure the volume, re-assemble then pour said volume back in. For future reference, the correct level is 300ml.
At first, the bike was very under damped and totally out of balance. The supplied 5w fork oil is wrong for sure. If I remember correctly, it's supposed to be 14-18 clicks of rebound and 10-14 clicks of compression. Under these conditions, it felt fine on the street but beat the crap out of me on the 405, and felt really loose going over train tracks n stuff. After doing bad-freeway runs for several hours, my current settings are 10 clicks of rebound and 7 clicks of compression which is significantly off from their recommended settings. AND THEY FEEL EXCELLENT. The adjustments are still good at those numbers. While it isn't quite as smooth on the street as before with the extra damping, it's still better than stock, and the freeway is a huge improvement. Next time I change my tire, Ill put in the proper 7.5w. WHEN YOU GET THE FRONTS make sure you use 7.5w. Canyon performance is very good and the spring rate is perfect as supplied.
Rear Update
So after literally 5 months trying to get matris to do something, they sent a spring which was 20mm longer than the supplied spring, with no meaningful markings and requested a preload value that would have dropped my ride height by over an inch had I followed their instructions. Matris never responded to our requests to get some meaningful data about the spring, after multiple attempts.While I appreciate Todd's hard work on my behalf, Matris was being unreasonable, and re-springing this shock is difficult due to it's construction. I wasn't about to put a mystery spring on, so I bought an ohlins spring, and it's phenominal. I have left the damping where it was (except for the rebound damping of course, which I backed off 3 clicks). At these settings, it is plenty capable, and much more responsive than stock, but also more comfortable. I can still grind hard parts in the turns confidently, but I do prefer to give it a couple clicks more compression when I'm out on a ride.
The supplied spring had a rate of 700 lb/in, and 20mm of preload on a 130mm spring. This spring is a non-standard size. The ohlins spring however is 150mm, with a rate of 628lb/in, preloadeded 23mm and the ride height is the same as before. (The stock spring is 485 or 535 lb/in.
So I have to say I really love the shock now. Now that the suspension is finally sorted, ('bout time) It has dramatically improved the ride quality. I can really rip the bike around hard, but railroad crossings and stuff are smooth as silk.
In conclusion, If you are on the bottom of a reccomended weight range for the rear shock, go with the lower range. You won't regret it.
Cheers everyone,
-Clam
This is the first installment of my coming full review of full matris suspension on a griso 1200 (not that it matters which one)
The process is not complete yet but i feel that what I have so far is still helpful, so out it goes. Please check back on this for updates.
Purpose of the upgrade:
Bad roads and freeways. My g12 is a commuter, and as such I deal with some pretty awful freeways on a regular basis (such as the 405) which have a washboard texture and beat the shit out of cars and motorcycles alike. Additionally, many of the roads around my area are in a state of severe disrepair, but receive little attention. Even when "taken care of", some guy just shovels a bit of asphault into the pot hole (more like a large gravel pit) and hits it with a shovel, leaving a bump rather than a hole, which is only marginally better.
Canyon performance was NOT my goal in this. 99% of suspension info and support seems to be geared toward the racetrack, where we ride on tracks as smooth as glass at very high speeds. I had no problems scraping my kickstand and riding all the way to the sidewalls of my tires using the stock supplied suspension.
The stock suspension itself isn't necessarily bad components, but the parts seem mismatched and unbalanced. I chose the matris R rear, with the full fork upgrade in the front.
Brief conclusion (for those of you who don't care for details)
Matris delivers an excellent product, once properly set-up. The build quality is great, the controls are well thought out and the adjustments are very meaningful. The hydraulic preload in the rear is a huge help when adding a passenger, and the cross-talk between the low speed and high speed compression adjustments is VERY low. Your bike will become much more smooth and responsive all around. If you spend a lot of time on your bike (or ride it really hard) than it is money well spent.
However, that said, dealing with matris is a lot like dealing with moto guzzi. They make great stuff, but they make stupid mistakes and that can become your problem, which they will address whenever they feel like doing so. Take great care to ensure everything is correct before attempting installation, and if it isn't, be prepared to wait a long time. (4 months and counting for me)
The ORIGINAL fronts: There is nowhere near enough damping for the supplied spring, and cranking down the compression simply results in the loss of progressive damping, as you basically just block off the exhaust orifice. The rebound adjustment had a similar issue, but wasn't as bad. Basically, blocking off the exhaust ports to increase damping begins to simulate a damping rod by limiting the amount of fluid allowed to pass through the shims. A heavier weight fork oil could help solve this problem by increasing viscous friction in both the shims AND the orifices at the same time, rather than just exhaust, but it still wouldn't be excellent. This lack of damping combined with "wooden" response resulted in poor performance on bad freeways at speed, and high-amplitude bumps (IE crossing a truck-rutted major street).
The ORIGINAL rear: I weigh about 180lb with gear, and didn't really have a problem with the stock supplied spring. It was light, sure, but it wasn't an issue. I also have a lithium battery which sheds 10 lbs, and is helpful. But the wooden response was still a problem. The rebound control was useless, probably because the shock was valved too heavily for the spring supplied with it.
The MATRIS rear:
I replaced this one first. I purchased this one from Todd as he already had it laying around. It was built for him, not me, but designed for a 185-205 lb rider weight with gear. This was probably my mistake because it was sprung primarily for aggressive canyon riding on the relatively good roads around his place, and he weighs a little more than I do. I was on the bottom end of the suggested weight range (185lb), although still within it, so I figured it would still be good.
The shock itself is superb. Very well damped for the supplied spring, control range is excellent with meaningful adjustments. the high speed compression available on the R version is a godsend for someone who has to deal with bad roads and canyons often on the same day. The hydraulic preload works very well too.
IT took about 1000 miles to break in. It felt wooden, harsh, and awful when it was new. It feels better now. However, the spring is WAY too stiff to use as a commuter, actually reducing the ride comfort significantly from stock. But the canyon performance is outstanding and I have some pretty spectacular snake photos to prove it. Currently, to reduce harshness, I have the high speed damping backed way out, and the low speed is out 2 clicks. But now it's a little bouncy. A weaker spring will resolve this issue and allow me to put some high speed damping back in and I am confident I will like it much more. Getting them to even send correct spring has taken about a month and now I have to wait for it to arrive. I have received word that it is finally happening (although matris is charging $100), but in the meantime I looked into other spring companies, and so far, race-tech seems pretty responsive. In hindsight, if you don't like the supplied spring, I'd skip the hassle of dealing with matris and just talk to race-tech. MAKE SURE that when you order the shock that you are clear about your intended use so that it is sprung accordingly. This was my fault, take my advice and avoid this issue all together.
The MATRIS fronts:
The fronts are very nice indeed. Everything feels much smoother.
Initially, we were going to install the front and rear at the same time. However, matris had supplied the wrong fork caps, which didn't fit. They claimed the fork caps were different between the 2v and the 8v models (which sounds like an excuse to me, but i don't know for sure). We found this out only after putting everything else together and it was a real bummer. It took about 5 weeks to get the proper parts. WHEN YOU GET THE FRONTS, measure the thread size of the fork cap before doing anything. I forget what the correct number is, but Todd has my original fronts so maybe he will chime in.
Once the new parts arrived, they supplied 5w fork oil vs the 7.5w supplied with the other kit. Assuming that this was intentional, we assembled the forks, which was a non-issue this time.
Matris's assembly instructions were really annoying, in that it required you to fill to a certain level, rather than give you a volume. This level included everything but the spring and spring spacer. But the construction of the shock makes it impossible to measure the oil level and then install the spring, so we had to assemble it, measure the oil level, then pour it out and measure the volume, re-assemble then pour said volume back in. For future reference, the correct level is 300ml.
At first, the bike was very under damped and totally out of balance. The supplied 5w fork oil is wrong for sure. If I remember correctly, it's supposed to be 14-18 clicks of rebound and 10-14 clicks of compression. Under these conditions, it felt fine on the street but beat the crap out of me on the 405, and felt really loose going over train tracks n stuff. After doing bad-freeway runs for several hours, my current settings are 10 clicks of rebound and 7 clicks of compression which is significantly off from their recommended settings. AND THEY FEEL EXCELLENT. The adjustments are still good at those numbers. While it isn't quite as smooth on the street as before with the extra damping, it's still better than stock, and the freeway is a huge improvement. Next time I change my tire, Ill put in the proper 7.5w. WHEN YOU GET THE FRONTS make sure you use 7.5w. Canyon performance is very good and the spring rate is perfect as supplied.
Rear Update
So after literally 5 months trying to get matris to do something, they sent a spring which was 20mm longer than the supplied spring, with no meaningful markings and requested a preload value that would have dropped my ride height by over an inch had I followed their instructions. Matris never responded to our requests to get some meaningful data about the spring, after multiple attempts.While I appreciate Todd's hard work on my behalf, Matris was being unreasonable, and re-springing this shock is difficult due to it's construction. I wasn't about to put a mystery spring on, so I bought an ohlins spring, and it's phenominal. I have left the damping where it was (except for the rebound damping of course, which I backed off 3 clicks). At these settings, it is plenty capable, and much more responsive than stock, but also more comfortable. I can still grind hard parts in the turns confidently, but I do prefer to give it a couple clicks more compression when I'm out on a ride.
The supplied spring had a rate of 700 lb/in, and 20mm of preload on a 130mm spring. This spring is a non-standard size. The ohlins spring however is 150mm, with a rate of 628lb/in, preloadeded 23mm and the ride height is the same as before. (The stock spring is 485 or 535 lb/in.
So I have to say I really love the shock now. Now that the suspension is finally sorted, ('bout time) It has dramatically improved the ride quality. I can really rip the bike around hard, but railroad crossings and stuff are smooth as silk.
In conclusion, If you are on the bottom of a reccomended weight range for the rear shock, go with the lower range. You won't regret it.
Cheers everyone,
-Clam