New V7 Stone. Questions on Mirrors/Stalling

[eweb101]

I just bought a 2013(but new) V7 Stone and have a few questions. I’m not mechanically incline so please be patient

I’m having trouble seeing out of there mirrors and can’t figure out how to adjust them correctly. I read that a lot of people only see their shoulders and end up buying after-market mirrors, but that’s not quite my problem. For me, in order to see cars next to me, I have to lower my head a few inches. It’s almost like I need to twist the mirror back a little bit so I can see higher up. Does that make sense? And I’m only 5’8’’ so I don’t think the problem is that I’m too tall.

I see there’s a nut on the mirror stem that looks like it might let me twist the mirror back, but I can’t turn the nut so it must not really be an adjustor. Anyway, does anyone know how I can adjust the mirrors so I can see traffic without having to bend down?

Issue number two. I’m having the problem I read about where if I don’t warm up the bike for 30 seconds or so, it’ll stall when I let out the clutch. Not sputter and stall, but just quit running. Some people say that a “remap” fixes the problem. Does it really fix the problem? Since I just bought the bike from a Moto-Guzzi dealer, I’d hope they updated the map when they prepped the bike, but I have no way of knowing whether they did or not.

Other than those two things, I love the bike.

 

[bdcfe]

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[eweb101]

Thanks for the quick reply.

What you have marked as #3 in the diagram is the nut I thought should be the correct adjuster, but couldn't get it to turn. Now that I know it's the right one, I'll put some more muscle into it tonight and see if I can get it to work.

 

[bdcfe]

Twist the body of the mirror to loosen #3 while holding the nut with a wrench. The nut just tensions against the threaded end of the mirror shaft so if it's bottomed you won't be able to loosen it. Just grab the mirror in your hand and give a good twist. Lefty-loosey

Edit- actually, it looks like the body of the mirror has flats on it so you could use a wrench and avoid the possibility of tearing the mirror head off (no big loss IMO). Do you know what I mean? Put a wrench on the nut #3, and use an adjustable wrench on the body of the mirror just above the nut. In situations like that I pad the wrench with something that won't mar the surface, like a piece of rag. There shouldn't be much tension involved here, so not much force should be needed.

 

[eweb101]

Great instructions! It only took me a minute to get them dialed in. I think I'll be much happier with the bike now.

 

[sign216]

Regarding the stalling when not fully warmed up, I found that a modifier to the Lambda sensor (oxygen sensor) helped running very much, and it's an economical mod. You can make your own, or buy one like FatDuc, Memjet, etc. What these do is fool the bike into enriching the fuel mix in the 0-4,000 rpm range, right where you need it.

Edit; I see you've got a 2014 bike. That means twin Lambda sensors. Twice the cost. Sorry.

 

[eweb101]

I've got a 2013. The dealer got in a new 2013 and I didn't think there was a difference between 2013 and 2014 so I went ahead and bought it.

I'll look into a new Lambda sensor(I'll admit I don't know what that is yet), or I'll live with having to warm it up in the morning.

It's kind of a weird problem to have though. Almost more like a mistake with their fuel injection than Italian character.

 

[sign216]

Eweb, it's a battle between the manufacturer and the emissions regulators. We want a richer mix for better performance, regulators want a leaner mix for cleaner exhaust.
I suspect Guzzi hasn't gotten the fuel "map" quite down. Other manufacturers have the problem too.

 

[PP-1753]

Eweb,

Unfortunately, the regulators win - if you want your motorcycle to comply with emissions, you have to map the ECU accordingly. This is how it is and how our machines ship from the factory. The factory will not issue any map or updated map (unless it specifically says something like "for track use only" as this will show they intend to not comply with current standards - and these standards are only going to get tougher!

This has spawned a whole industry on doing things from Lambda "adjustments" (O2 Optimiser, FatDuc and the like) to full on remapped ECUs and Power Commanders to fine tune on the fly.

At the end of the day "it is what it is". It is at the risk (low I would imagine) of the bike owner when any of this stuff is fiddled with in order to make it more tractable and smoother with any of these modifications. Some jurisdictions are more anal than others in detecting these mods and enforcing compliance. In general, I think you would have to be dead unlucky to get caught - that is why many of us fiddle with out bikes to improve what should have come from the factory. But the factory can't be seen to be doing things or they start flirting with non-compliance issues.

In Europe, where most of the compliance noise is coming from, everyone toes the line. Unless you are racing - then the biggie is noise.

When you have your head around all of this, you need to make an "executive decision" on what you will do. There are plenty of options out there if you decide to "fiddle".

Enjoy!

 

[Kev M]

Regarding the stalling when not fully warmed up, I found that a modifier to the Lambda sensor (oxygen sensor) helped running very much, and it's an economical mod. You can make your own, or buy one like FatDuc, Memjet, etc. What these do is fool the bike into enriching the fuel mix in the 0-4,000 rpm range, right where you need it.

Edit; I see you've got a 2014 bike. That means twin Lambda sensors. Twice the cost. Sorry.

JEEUZUS KEYRIST man will you STOP drawing parallels where none exist.

I will EAT MY F'N HELMET IF A PAIR OF FAT DUCS FIX THIS.

I'm tell you the 1TB models are VERY VERY different than the 2TB models from an EFI standpoint.

The 2TB use a single 02 sensor, a mechanical fast idle mechanism to physically open the throttle bodies and throttle cables to open/close the synchronized dual throttle plates, along with the air temp, tps, head temp and crankshaft position sensors.

The 1TB uses a pair of 02 sensors, a pair of cables that RUN TO THE THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR that tell the ECM how much the rider wants the ECM ITSELF TO OPEN AND CLOSE THE THROTTLE BODY. The TPS sensor and air temp sensor are built into the throttle body. Idle speed is directly ELECTRONICALLY controlled by the ECM via the throttle body (and possibly according to Roper by spark advance). BTW the air temp sensor is also incorporated into the throttle body, but the head temp sensor and crank position remain separate. Oh and the ECM supposedly maps each individual cylinder separately based on said 02 sensor signals.

Now MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE the 02 sensors with heaters might possibly come up to temp in MAYBE JUST under a minute, but EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS and THAT is the breakover point when these things won't stall cold, that doesn't mean the 02 sensor manipulator is going to make the ECM enter closed-loop any quicker.

SERIOIUSLY GUYS, these things are surprisingly different all things considered.


OP - My 13 Stone does this and continues to do it to this very day. Everything we've tried has failed, though I haven't put a pair of Fat Ducs on it... I have one, that I took off my B11 because it didn't seem to do jack. IF someone wants to loan me another (or has one and wants to borrow mine) I'll be happy to help with a test, but I don't think I'm gonna need ketchup for my helmet.

 

[sign216]

If you want to rich up the mix, i.e. add more fuel, to the lower part of the rpm range, then use one of the many, and I mean many, O2 sensor mods out there.

Ducati guys do it. Guzzi guys do it. Other brands do it.

You don't have to. But it's just an inexpensive way to modify the fuel mixture. There are more expensive ways which are more complete and thorough.

But sometimes a partial solution is enough of a solution.

 

[Kev M]

A SOLUTION TO WHAT???

SERIOUSLY, do you understand what is causing this bizarre cold start problem on the new V7?

Cause if you do, please let me know.

I've never seen anything like it on an EFI motor.

No matter what you try for it, additional throttle, feathering the clutch, whatever, put it in gear and attempt to go and it dies.

On top of that mine hunts at this point, up and down like it's struggling to hit the idle target and constantly over-correcting (with throttle position and/or timing).

BUT BUT BUT minutes later and for the rest of the day (unless parked long enough) it's fine, runs great, not a complaint. Doesn't need to run smoother, or better, or anything.

 

[bdcfe]

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[Mrkitty2]

Re the stalling... I put O2 modifiers on my 1TB V7R. Stops the stalling, doesn't cure the occasional hesitation/spluttering at small throttle openings below 4/4500rpm, if I give the grip a twist, seems to clear its throat. Sometimes a whole ride (100 miles) goes by with no problem. So what's that about? TPS? Anyone else suffering this? It's a '13 V7R that's had ECU/TB replaced, and new Lambdas. 4600 miles, drinks 97 only...

 

[Kev M]

Re the stalling... I put O2 modifiers on my 1TB V7R. Stops the stalling, doesn't cure the occasional hesitation/spluttering at small throttle openings below 4/4500rpm, if I give the grip a twist, seems to clear its throat. Sometimes a whole ride (100 miles) goes by with no problem. So what's that about? TPS? Anyone else suffering this? It's a '13 V7R that's had ECU/TB replaced, and new Lambdas. 4600 miles, drinks 97 only...

SERIOUSLY? You had the cold start problem where you just literally CANNOT ride away until a minute or two has passed and now you can cold start and pull away without it dying?

INTERESTING - especially since I don't have an occasional hesitation/spluttering at small throttle openings.

But I'm willing to try... all I need is a second Fat Duc...

 

[Mrkitty2]

Hi Kev, yup, seriously. I'm using Finebau Forge units from Dave Shaw... I disconnected them to sample the difference, and this morning and this afternoon, stalling mayhem. Stalling when pulling away, stalling at idle waiting for the lights. But also this stupid glitchy bad fuelling at small throttle openings. Does that with the Finebau Forges on too. Although I've just read a post from Todd saying that the ECU doesn't self-learn... Is this right? Dear G*d, WHY are there so many different opinions about these bikes?! My UK Dealer says the ECU does learn... But if it doesn't and I've got Mistrals with dB killers and a BMC filter, then I've got a problem, yes? Todd? Bueller? Anyone? Etc ad nauseam.

 

[john zibell]

Hi Kev, yup, seriously. I'm using Finebau Forge units from Dave Shaw... I disconnected them to sample the difference, and this morning and this afternoon, stalling mayhem. Stalling when pulling away, stalling at idle waiting for the lights. But also this stupid glitchy bad fuelling at small throttle openings. Does that with the Finebau Forges on too. Although I've just read a post from Todd saying that the ECU doesn't self-learn... Is this right? Dear G*d, WHY are there so many different opinions about these bikes?! My UK Dealer says the ECU does learn... But if it doesn't and I've got Mistrals with dB killers and a BMC filter, then I've got a problem, yes? Todd? Bueller? Anyone? Etc ad nauseam.

Factory mapping is set for factory breathing. The more you change, the higher the probability of problems. The lambda should compensate to some degree on the closed loop portion (which is where you are having the problem), but apparently not enough. Do note that even though the lambda does have a heating element, it does take some time to get hot enough to generate values.

 

[Mrkitty2]

Thanks John. I guess I just have to live with the glitches then... Or retro-fit nice carburettors. Whatever happened to them? Sigh.

 

[bdcfe]

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[Mrkitty2]

Good question. I might try switching off my Lambdas via the O2 modules, and see what happens.