Norge Electrical Capacity

[Bill Hagan]

There has been an e/m exchange going on with a prospective Norge buyer -- Kurt -- Steelhorse Classics and a few others.

Our answers (in my case, I only provide motoitalophilic opinion. :laugh: ) have apparently been unsatisfactory.

Perhaps someone here can respond definitively.

Thanks.

Bill

============


Gents,
Lot of opinionated information (I expected that) but nothing that helps me in my quest for an answer to my electrical question. Mr. Warner could you contact someone at MG Corporate to get the answer? ABS takes a lot of electrons to operate.
I have been riding bikes for 40+ yrs, at present I own four bikes (2006 HD Ultra with 45K , 2002 Aprilia Caponord with 12K , 1988 Kawasaki Concours with 234K and a 2003 Kawasaki Concours with 140K), wife owns a 2005 Concours as well with 52K. I average 40K - 45K a year on my bikes, car and truck get 2K - 5K a year each.
My Concours does not produce enough electrons to power two sets of heated gear, only the HD will (600 watts).
Wife and I are Assistant Area Directors for VA & WV for the Concours Owners Group (COG). We along with the help from my 92 members within our region put on 10 to 12 events a year all over the two states.
As far as commuting to DC....I would rather commute with the daily commuters at 5:15 in the morning than get on RT 95 on the weekend and travel with those morons. At least the morning commuters are focused on one thing, getting to DC to work. The weekend morons have too many distractions, i.e., cell phones, screaming kids, etc.
As far as MG's are concerned I have two issues that I need addressed. They are.....the charging system that I have addressed above and the hot / humid weather conditions on its air cooled motor. I park my HD between the months of May and Sept. The rush hour stop and go traffic and "it" do not get along. Even using synthetic oils (Amsoil) and a oil cooler. I have been told..........that Guzzi's have a 40 to 50psi oil pump at an idle which helps in the cooling of the motor where as HD runs 3 to 5 psi.
I perform all my own service, I have a air / hydraulic lift, tire machine and balancer, etc so that is not an issue. With the jugs on a MG being out in the air like my old R1100GS I do not see a full service taking more than 2 - 3 hours which is a lot better than the 7 - 8 hours it takes to do a Concours properly.
If I purchase a MG it will most likely be from a dealer in VA, I like to keep my hard earned dollars close to home. I do have to sell my HD or Aprilia first..........that is the bosses rules.
Kurt



Before I consider a MG any further I need some more information on the electrical system.
As stated before I ride all year with electric clothing and gloves and the wife and I do it 2 up.
I need 280 watts to run the clothes, MG web site claims the Norge and Stelvio both have a 550 watt charging system. Subtract 280 watts from the 550 watts and that leaves 270 watts.....will either bike run on 270 watts (i.e., lights, ignition, computer....drive down the road without it dying or killing the battery?)
Again, thank you for your time in advance,
Kurt

 

[john zibell]

OK, You have a balance of 270 watts. Headlight high beam (low stays on so 55 plus 60) 115 watts, tail light, LED so maybe 5 watts with the brake light? Turn signals, 30-40 watts, flashing. This leaves at least 110 watts. At a 12 volt system, that is nearly 10 amps, the ECU is on a 3 amp fuse, so say less than 36 watts. There is still a balance of at least 34 watts to run the coils and fuel pump. Since you aren’t on high beam all the time, you don’t have turn signals on all the time, you should be in good shape. Besides, the Norge is only 50 watts less than your Harley, that is just a little more that 4 watts, or a very dim bulb.

Just for insurance in the cold riding season, put a charger on once a week. It sounds like the bike will be garage kept so no big problem to do that.

 

[RJVB]

John, my low beam switches off when I switch to high beam by "pushing" the trigger switch. Low remains on when I 'pull' the trigger to flash the lights. I can see a very definite drop on the dash's voltage read-out when I light all four projectors (nice for after-dark unlit twisty roads) vs. to normal lighting (be it low or high).

Also, high and low beam bulbs are not the same across all years, according to their manuals, if memory serves me well.

I don't understand the guy's post. He's worried about engine performance under hot/humid conditions and yet manages to ride with electric gear year-round??

 

[ParCan]

Without being able to give a specific answer, I'd suggest almost 300 watts of heated gear is gona come darn close to, if not be to much for the Norge Charging system. Even more so if your in slow moving traffic. if you were on long steady runs you'd probably get away with it, but again, i'd suggest only just.

As for the heat in Traffic, it's gona get hot. This is one of the main reasons Guzzi say 10 W 60 oil.
I doubt you will suffer any ills. There are a number of people on here who ride Guzzies in Hot stop start conditions. No one has reported any issues.

 

[RJVB]

Another detail: I've seen a graph recently that suggests that even without additional load on the system, so close to 14V on the terminals when the engine is over 2krpm, the battery will charge only when (its?) temperature is at least 20ºC. This may become an issue when you're spending a lot of time in start/stop traffic. Though that's also where temps inside the bike will go up.

Since my own dying-battery issue recently, I've begun to switch off what I can (basically just the heated grips, even if I can't see their influence on the dash's Volt meter) when I can. I don't really need heating my hands when I'm barely moving, wearing warm gloves and my hands aren't bone-cold already. I guess the same would apply to other heated gear. I also avoid running with all 4 projectors on, something I'd been doing quite a bit just before I found my battery empty.

Does your HD have a voltmeter aboard? If not, try putting one directly on the battery, and see how the readout varies on a typical ride with all your gear. That will tell much more than guessing can.

 

[kwn306]

Yes, the HD Ultra has a volt meter, at idle with everything on (driving lights, radio, etc.) I am at 13 volts, I have to turn down the heated gear in stop a go traffic, but at that point the engine heat radiates through my a$$ to keep me warm.

The HD charging system is quite nice, it gives you a full 600 watts at anything over 2K rpm.

I hate to use the word "assume" but I believe the ABS on the Norge will be the back breaker with the charging system where as the Stelvio (no ABS) might work. Does anyone know when (what rpm) the full wattage (550 watts) kicks in on a Guzzi?

Thanks for the information

Kurt

 

[ncassidy]

can't say much about heated clothing and draw on the system as I don't have any heated clothing. As far as the Norge getting hot in traffic, I would think any air head would if sitting idling. I took a trip down to Long Island from New Hampshire, hot 90* day. I had to check a piece of equipment down there and had to use the northern state and cross island parkway. Well the traffic was barely puking along and stopping and the Norge didn't like it after awhile, and the over heating light came on. Thank god I was about a mile away from the exit. To tell you the truth, I wouldn't want to make a habit of that kind of riding, it is rather boring.

 

[RJVB]

No idea how much the ABS draws. The easiest way to check (and turn it off semi-permanently) is to remove the fuse. I know people who did that on Hondas, I presume it'd be possible on the Norge as well. I just wouldn't do it unless really necessary, esp. in urban driving in weather that requires heated clothing...

As said before, the Norge has only just over 8% less watts than the HD. Full power is available from 2krpm onwards (maybe even a bit less, not sure). I see 13.2V on the dash at idle with the usual stuff on (no radio, no heated gear), 13.5 while riding, which means that there's about 0.5V more on the terminals. The Norge is not power-starved. I don't know if ABS is important to you, nor whether any of the other Breva-derivatives come with it in the US? The Norge is the only current Guzzi that has all its lights doubled, so you could win at least 60W for the lights alone by going for a Breva or 1200 Sport.

 

[Bill Hagan]

kwn306 wrote:

Yes, the HD Ultra has a volt meter, at idle with everything on (driving lights, radio, etc.) I am at 13 volts, I have to turn down the heated gear in stop a go traffic, but at that point the engine heat radiates through my a$$ to keep me warm.

The HD charging system is quite nice, it gives you a full 600 watts at anything over 2K rpm.

I hate to use the word "assume" but I believe the ABS on the Norge will be the back breaker with the charging system where as the Stelvio (no ABS) might work. Does anyone know when (what rpm) the full wattage (550 watts) kicks in on a Guzzi?

Thanks for the information

Kurt

I have to say that it never occurred to me even to think that the ABS system drew enough power to matter. Thus, in that somewhat sublime version of reverse-elitism, I find it amusing and predictable that the most detailed and passionate discussion of this sort of thing is on beemer forums (or, as those folks would chide, fora).

OTOH, the sort of person who does worry about such things probably never has to scream "Oh shix!" in their helmet when the electrical system goes south from the application of ABS while simultaneously running the standard stuff plus an espresso machine, etc. That said, as ABS does not help in the curves where I do most of my helmet shrieking, I don't need to worry about it much. Yet, that sort of O/C, A/R person never has this happen to them as I did this morning. :S

http://picasaweb.google.com/BillKathi/T ... ngGasGoof#

Thankfully, I am blessed with an indulgent wife, as Kathi cheerfully brought me what I needed.

Anyway, did find two places that addressed the issue of ABS power suck:

At http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395505, I read that "I can't imagine the ABS system drawing enough to worry about on a "steady state" basis...," which would, to extent I would muse on it at all, have been my conclusion, too. Can't imagine that guy staying a beemerist much longer. That sort of lackadasicality just doesn't quite fit.

But, wait, here, at http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php?p=203481, I see:

"Wattage used
Tailight and brakes 35W
Standard Headlight 55W
ECU & System (ABS) 75W
Heated Grips 50W
Blinkers 25W each

Standard Draw Total 205W"

... followed by, "I would personally discard the blinkers since it is a short-term intermittent load and if using heated grips would not be using heater gloves ... and if the 75W for the ECU/ABS is really a lot less if you are NOT actually using the ABS feature there may be some extra margin there... but still it kinda implies that the rider's power budget is <ehem> not generous...."

Furthermore deponent saith not ... cuz he has no further clue.

I intend to spend my Thanksgiving with family (including my former fiance', who visits my mom every year with her wife and son. Yes, it's true. That's another reason I would not be welcome at BMW rallies. hmy:

Happy Thanksgiving to you all.

Bill