Stepper motor repaired. Triangle of death gone bye bye.

[Adam Davis]

Again, utilizing tips on this forum. $90.00 an hour savings once again. Not to mention price of stepper motor if i was to replace it. Bling, bling, tilt, tilt....

Error Code 62 i believe kept coming up. Stepper ground fault. What caused all this was filling oil to top of line on stick verses dead at the middle. Coughed up excess oil into airbox and it coughs it as a fine mist when hammering high rpms. Stepper breathed it in causing a clogged actuater screw inside stepper motor. Tripped ole #62 triangle of death.

Went to hardware store bought carb/cleaner, Sea Foam, and silicone spray lube. Have to use all three to achieve success in my case.
1st: carry needle nose plyers at all times while riding to remove stepper hose from air box and spray cleaner throughout the day after longer rides directly into hose while running. Be liberal with it my stepper was clogged and gummed to the point of total malfunction. Bout half the can was used throughout the 5 treatments.

2nd: utilize a turkey injector syringe with about 1oz of Seafoam to be injected directly into stepper via same hose. Engine running to draw seafoam and gunk into cylinders to be burnt off. She died often in this process. Ride all day doing this process 4 times total. 4th time let seafoam sit in line and stepper motor over night.

3rd:get up and fill tank to go on mission to kill the triangle of death red blinking service light on dash ride. Ran smokey as shit for 10 minutes. Triangle gone for most of the days riding. Then while running sprayed silicone into same hose with straw. Approx 3 second blasts 3 times within an hour. Turned key off and on to cycle stepper motor fully 10 times after each application. Finished riding for the day and did one final 3 sec blast of silicone and let it sit all night.
Next day and for 20 days now no errors, no idle problems, and no effin triangle of death service light blinking me to crazytown....

Cost: a donation to Todds' forum annualy and 10 bucks spent at the hardware store.

(DO NOT OVERFILL OIL in your 1200 motor)

Thank you John Zibell brilliant sir!

 

[KayJay]

Adam,
I'm suddenly having exactly the same problem with my 2010 Stelvio. Just sorted out a number of other gremlins and now I'm suddenly getting the ECU 62 error code. A while back I got lazy and let a non-guzzi shop change the oil while the bike was in for a front tire. After riding the bike home I noticed oil on the bottom of the air box. I checked the oil level and indeed it was high. Restored the oil level to midway on the dipstick and then proceeded to fix a couple of other codes. After riding the other day, the ECU 62 code came on and stays on. It can't be deleted using the dashboard diagnostics. After reading your post I am hopeful I can restore the stepper motor. Is it necessary to ride the bike for extended periods of time while introducing cleaners/lubricants? The reason I ask is because I had tried introducing seafoam and silicone lubricants directly into the stepper motor with the engine running at different RPMs, but with the bike on the center stand parked in the garage. So far I've had no success.

 

[scott_m]

You don't use Seafoam. That's crap.

You use quality carburetor cleaner, like Gumout. That will instantly dissolve any oil and gum. It's actually a very fast and simple procedure. All of that mumbo jumbo was way overly complicated and unnecessary.

https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/stelvio-idling-issues.19986/#post-156502

 

[Moto-Uno]

Hi Scott , did I miss something on the link you supplied ? There was mention of Seafoam , not in a negative fashion, and in
the end the repair was something to do with the sacred screw adjustment . Peter

 

[KayJay]

You don't use Seafoam. That's crap.

You use quality carburetor cleaner, like Gumout. That will instantly dissolve any oil and gum. It's actually a very fast and simple procedure. All of that mumbo jumbo was way overly complicated and unnecessary.

https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/stelvio-idling-issues.19986/#post-156502

Thanks Scott,
Can't believe another code! Anyway, I did use a carb cleaner made by WD 40 with limited success. The engine now runs smoother but the code remains and can't be deleted with the dash diagnostics. Still idles like crap as well. Gumout is easy enough to get and worth a try as a new stepper is $800.00. I ran the engine up to about 4,000 rpm and shot the carb cleaner directly into the stepper motor through a hose connected to it's intake. Did this several times. Will try the Gumout.
I have a fair knowledge of electronics and I know that solenoids have a habit of shorting as the insulation on the windings breaks down. I hope like hell that isn't the case here. That said the bike has always been kept in a dehumidified garage so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Adam Davis]

KayJay,

At a last resort pull the 2 adapters off the ECU. If any moisture gets inside it will corrode the pins or even just one. Just so happens it happened. I then purchased a pre-owned ECU 5AM and reflashed according to my particular setup. Can only state what works for me. My Stepper Motor has worked flawlessly since my original treatment. Code 62 reappeared after water intrusion many, many, miles later. Should have updated this post. I do have an extra ECU and Stepper Motor. Message me if needed.

 

[KayJay]

Thanks Scott,
Can't believe another code! Anyway, I did use a carb cleaner made by WD 40 with limited success. The engine now runs smoother but the code remains and can't be deleted with the dash diagnostics. Still idles like crap as well. Gumout is easy enough to get and worth a try as a new stepper is $800.00. I ran the engine up to about 4,000 rpm and shot the carb cleaner directly into the stepper motor through a hose connected to it's intake. Did this several times. Will try the Gumout.
I have a fair knowledge of electronics and I know that solenoids have a habit of shorting as the insulation on the windings breaks down. I hope like hell that isn't the case here. That said the bike has always been kept in a dehumidified garage so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I guess the next step will be to check if any of the pins to the stepper are shorted to ground.

 

[KayJay]

KayJay,

At a last resort pull the 2 adapters off the ECU. If any moisture gets inside it will corrode the pins or even just one. Just so happens it happened. I then purchased a pre-owned ECU 5AM and reflashed according to my particular setup. Can only state what works for me. My Stepper Motor has worked flawlessly since my original treatment. Code 62 reappeared after water intrusion many, many, miles later. Should have updated this post. I do have an extra ECU and Stepper Motor. Message me if needed.

Thanks Adam,
All the pins in the ECU look brand new. No corrosion and bone dry. That's why I am worried about the solenoid. It would make sense to me that if the winding is shorted I would get a ground fault code. I wouldn't worry so much if a new stepper was a few hundred bucks. I'd just bite the bullet and replace it but $800.00 for a simple solenoid needle valve seems damn steep. I may take you up on your spare stepper if I can't revive this one...
According to the service station manual the pins to the stepper are # 9,17,18 and 19. I guess I'll need to pull the airbox to get to the connector on the stepper and start checking continuity as well as any shorts directly to earth ground. The wiring diagram shows no direct ground from the stepper so I don't think any of the stepper pins should show continuity to ground.

 

[Adam Davis]

Either way let us know. I was pulling my hair out on this code issue. One thing I found out though in addition to the rest. Question for you- directly after you turn off the ignition key a healthy stepper should cycle it self back to seated. It's very subtle but with your ear close you should hear it....???

 

[scott_m]

Hi Scott , did I miss something on the link you supplied ? There was mention of Seafoam , not in a negative fashion, and in
the end the repair was something to do with the sacred screw adjustment . Peter

The link was only for this specific post.

“For the stepper, just remove the [airbox] lid. There is a passage to the air supply line for the stepper. I haven't come across throttle bodies that were gummed up so I can't help you there. Spray some cleaner in and wait a minute or two. Then start the engine and spray more. It should free up the stepper to operate correctly. I've done this to several machines to cure the stalling issue they having.”

Can't believe another code! Anyway, I did use a carb cleaner made by WD 40 with limited success. The engine now runs smoother but the code remains and can't be deleted with the dash diagnostics. Still idles like crap as well. Gumout is easy enough to get and worth a try as a new stepper is $800.00. I ran the engine up to about 4,000 rpm and shot the carb cleaner directly into the stepper motor through a hose connected to it's intake. Did this several times. Will try the Gumout.

According to the service station manual the pins to the stepper are # 9,17,18 and 19. I guess I'll need to pull the airbox to get to the connector on the stepper and start checking continuity as well as any shorts directly to earth ground. The wiring diagram shows no direct ground from the stepper so I don't think any of the stepper pins should show continuity to ground.

KayJay… I think you are not cleaning the steeper properly. I have never failed to have one clean right up and run correctly. Did you mop up and wipe out the excess oil in the airbox from the oil overfill?

Did you go through the air box? You have to remove the lid then spray into the tube leading to the steeper motor. The silicon is doing that error I bet. The motor requires no external lubrication. Just clean and dry.

FWIW: Any code can be deleted from the Diagnostic menu. You are doing something wrong again. I find people do not get the “long pulse” “short pulse” logic of the menus. If you did not get asked to confirm resetting the codes then you most certainly did it wrong.

Advice: Always look for the simple solution. 98% of the time on a Moto Guzzi, this is what the issue is.

Rarely is it a “zebra”, issue but rather just a common “horse.

As to your idle, although I think you are not cleaning the steeper motor correctly if at all, in addition, if anyone moved the throttle body balancing screw, then without a TPS reset, yes, the bike will idle like crap.

 

[KayJay]

The link was only for this specific post.

“For the stepper, just remove the [airbox] lid. There is a passage to the air supply line for the stepper. I haven't come across throttle bodies that were gummed up so I can't help you there. Spray some cleaner in and wait a minute or two. Then start the engine and spray more. It should free up the stepper to operate correctly. I've done this to several machines to cure the stalling issue they having.”






KayJay… I think you are not cleaning the steeper properly. I have never failed to have one clean right up and run correctly. Did you mop up and wipe out the excess oil in the airbox from the oil overfill?

Did you go through the air box? You have to remove the lid then spray into the tube leading to the steeper motor. The silicon is doing that error I bet. The motor requires no external lubrication. Just clean and dry.

FWIW: Any code can be deleted from the Diagnostic menu. You are doing something wrong again. I find people do not get the “long pulse” “short pulse” logic of the menus. If you did not get asked to confirm resetting the codes then you most certainly did it wrong.

Advice: Always look for the simple solution. 98% of the time on a Moto Guzzi, this is what the issue is.

Rarely is it a “zebra”, issue but rather just a common “horse.

As to your idle, although I think you are not cleaning the steeper motor correctly if at all, in addition, if anyone moved the throttle body balancing screw, then without a TPS reset, yes, the bike will idle like crap.

Thanks so much Scott. You may be correct. First, I have no diagnostic software as yet however when I turn the key on the dash cycles through it's normal systems check and the the warning light comes on. Going into the dash diagnostics I find the ECU 62 code. I then select clear stored codes. The dash then asks are you sure you want to clear codes. I hit yes but nothing happens and service light remains. Tried disconnecting the battery as well but as soon as the dash cycles through it;s systems check the red triangle comes back on.
As for cleaning the stepper, I did not go through the air box. I more or less by-passed the air box by connecting a long hose directly to the stepper and sprayed cleaner into the hose ad directly into the stepper. Did this with engine off for a few minutes and then a few more times with the engine running. Other than a drop in RPM nothing happens. Maybe taking the air box out of the equation is the problem? Haven't pulled the air box yet so no access for hooking up the multi meter. Needed to take a day off to do the "Honey Do" list. Will make a fresh start this afternoon and try cleaning the stepper as you suggest.

 

[scott_m]

Thanks so much Scott. You may be correct. First, I have no diagnostic software as yet however when I turn the key on the dash cycles through it's normal systems check and the the warning light comes on. Going into the dash diagnostics I find the ECU 62 code. I then select clear stored codes. The dash then asks are you sure you want to clear codes. I hit yes but nothing happens and service light remains. Tried disconnecting the battery as well but as soon as the dash cycles through it;s systems check the red triangle comes back on.
As for cleaning the stepper, I did not go through the air box. I more or less by-passed the air box by connecting a long hose directly to the stepper and sprayed cleaner into the hose ad directly into the stepper. Did this with engine off for a few minutes and then a few more times with the engine running. Other than a drop in RPM nothing happens. Maybe taking the air box out of the equation is the problem? Haven't pulled the air box yet so no access for hooking up the multi meter. Needed to take a day off to do the "Honey Do" list. Will make a fresh start this afternoon and try cleaning the stepper as you suggest.

After selecting YES, you have to press and hold the MODE button in to actually issue the confirmation to reset.

It sounds like you are not doing this correctly.

There is no “other way” to the stepper motor other than the method I wrote; going through the top of the airbox.

I don’t know where or what tube you are referring to. Whatever it is, it is not the steeper motor I’m sure.

Just open the airbox lid like I said.

Clean out the excess oil completely and spray the carb cleaner directly into the steeper motor intake. You are in the right place if you stall the motor from spraying too much cleaner at once.

 

[KayJay]

Scott,
I pulled the lid off the air box but was unable to find a tube going to the stepper inside the airbox. I was only able to find the two intakes to the throttlebody.
This is a 2010 with the small tank. Will that make any difference?

As far as a tube to the stepper, there is a nipple coming off of the top of the airbox. You can see this nipple just to the left of the red circle on the picture. There is a u-shaped tube that connects the airbox to the brass nipple in the stepper motor (see 2nd photo) I sprayed the cleaner into the brass tube that is on the stepper motor.

 

[scott_m]

Yes, that’s the location.

However, did you open the airbox and clean out the oil? Otherwise you will just keep blowing more contaminants into the steeper.

 

[KayJay]

Yes,

It really wasn't that bad. No puddling, just a film on the bottom of the box.

When trying to delete the error code when I press and hold the confirmation to delete codes the yes box is highlighted and while holding the button the yes box suddenly gets dim again as if I never selected it..

Unless anyone has any other suggestions (at this point I'm willing to try just about anything shy of human sacrifice so any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated) I think I'll remove the airbox and if my old shaking hands can get to the stepper I'll check the electrical connections. Maybe get another used stepper motor and try it. If that works I can always work on the old stepper to try and resurrect it later. Considering these things are quite literally worth their weight in gold it would be nice to have a spare.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to help me out with this!!

 

[KayJay]

While gaining access to the stepper motor I found this (see pic below). It is located behind the left shroud, above the left cylinder (clutch side). It's an electrical connector with a rubber tube attached to it. It doesn't seem to be attached to anything on the end I can see. Does anyone know what this goes to?

 

[scott_m]

IDK. Why don't you just remove the tank and get clean unobstructed view to take good pictures to obtain help?

 

[KayJay]

Thanks Scott,

I have had the tank off and remember it was a pain. I had to replace 3 fuel level sending units when the bike was new. The original failed within the first couple of months I had the bike. Replaced 2 of them under warranty and not wanting to make another 3 hour trip to the dealer to replace it again I ordered a sending unit and replaced it myself. I guess if I'm going to keep the Guzzi I will need get used to doing the PITA tank removal from time to time.

Just to update, I tried to clear the code again and when ever I hit and hold "YES" to confirm I want to clear codes, the screen reverts back to the previous screen "do you want to clear stored errors" Makes me think there is either a dead short or completely open connection between the ecu and stepper or in the coils inside the stepper itself. Should be easy enough to check once the tank is off. Been to involved with aging parents to spend any time on the bike but will update with anything new.

Thanks again!

 

[john zibell]

Just to update, I tried to clear the code again and when ever I hit and hold "YES" to confirm I want to clear codes, the screen reverts back to the previous screen "do you want to clear stored errors" Makes me think there is either a dead short or completely open connection between the ecu and stepper or in the coils inside the stepper itself. Should be easy enough to check once the tank is off. Been to involved with aging parents to spend any time on the bike but will update with anything new.

That isn't the cause. It is how the button is manipulated. It should clear codes even if the fault exists, If the fault still exists it will appear again after it is cleared from the ECU when you start the bike.

 

[Moto-Uno]

"John" , could you explain what you mean by "how the button is manipulated" . It may be
all he needs to get rid of the warning . Peter