Updated cam and tappets went to lunch

[kwn306]

Had my Stelvio in for a "no start / hard start" condition and the dealer called and said it was ready to pick it up. Paid the bill, the bike fired up and I made the 100+ mile home.

A day or so later I noticed the left side jug making noise when the oil got good and hot, especially after running the bike 70+ miles to work. There was a slapping or clanking sound coming from under the valve cover.

I parked the bike, let it cool and pulled the valve cover, found nothing a miss or loose in the valve train. Put the bike on a trailer and hauled it back to the dealer last week.

He pulled it apart on Sat., gave me a call and stated that the cam and tappets on the left side were all torn up. These are the new update parts that were installed back in the Spring of 2009.

So it looks like the update stuff is suspect as well, it just took 2 yrs and 25K miles to show up. :evil: :evil:

Dealer is going to call Guzzi on Tuesday and see if they will cover these parts again, otherwise it will be a very expensive bill. :woohoo: :woohoo: Right about now I'm not a very happy camper.

 

[Penis Rotor]

OK, so there may be a problem. Lets try and find out what it might be.

Were the valve clearances set correctly?

What oil is being used?

Has it been serviced as per book?

Are you absolutely SURE that the tappets used when the recall work was done were the new type?

Did your motor previously fail? Or was it dealt with BEFORE a failure could occur.

Pete

 

[kwn306]

OK, so there may be a problem. Lets try and find out what it might be.

Were the valve clearances set correctly? YES

What oil is being used? 10W-60 Agip

Has it been serviced as per book? YES

Are you absolutely SURE that the tappets used when the recall work was done were the new type?

They were sent to my dealer via Guzzi USA, with the service bulliten on how to install them. I don't know the specific part number, I was told the job was done correctly. The bike ran fine, no loss of power, the hard starting problem was solved be cleaning the TB's and rebalance the TB's.

My bike was sold to another owner, 75 miles put on it and the owner traded it back in on something else because he had heard about cam / tappet failures. When I purchased the bike the work had not been done, I never drove the bike until the updated parts were installed which was 2-1/2 months after I made the purchase.

Did your motor previously fail? Or was it dealt with BEFORE a failure could occur. They had not failed.

Pete

Pete, see above inserts.

It is not until the oil gets good and hot that you can hear the noise. and you can only hear the noise at an idle. My dealer is wondering the same thing you are.....did they really give him the correct parts or just re-badge the old parts, because I was really losing my cool waiting for the new stuff to arrive. It not like I dogged the bike constantly either, every once in a while I would run the bike up near 7K, maybe bounce it off of 8K. I've never hit the rev limiter.

 

[Penis Rotor]

If you or your dealer can take a couple of pics, prefferably of both a failed and unfailed lifter with both a side and top elevation I'll almost vertainly be able to tell you which parts they are, early or late.

Post 'em up here as well but if you could send 'em to me direct as well at

motomoda@optusnet.com.au

I can blow 'em up a bit and have a good squizz. MAcro shots would be nice against a clear background.

Thanks.

Pete

 

[kwn306]

If you or your dealer can take a couple of pics, prefferably of both a failed and unfailed lifter with both a side and top elevation I'll almost vertainly be able to tell you which parts they are, early or late.

Pete,

I will make the request to the dealer and see if they can send me a picture or three. The owner of the dealership sent me an email stating the cam was "burnished and pitted" or maybe it was the cam that was "burnished" and the tappets were "pitted." The email is at home, not in front of me, I will see what type of pictures they can send me.

 

[Penis Rotor]

That would be good. Nobody can offer ANY meaningfull assesment without Pitchers. Even with Pitchers it ain't like being able to touch, smell and taste it.

Pete

 

[Lannis]

Wow -

Watching THIS thread with interest!

I've got the same bike, same recall done by the same dealer.

Only 9000 miles on mine since I bought it new in September.

Second service done at 6200 miles and nothing dodgy in the oil. I drain the oil through a paint filter so I'll keep my eyes open on the next one .....

Lannis

 

[kwn306]

Wow -

Watching THIS thread with interest!

I've got the same bike, same recall done by the same dealer.

Only 9000 miles on mine since I bought it new in September.

Second service done at 6200 miles and nothing dodgy in the oil. I drain the oil through a paint filter so I'll keep my eyes open on the next one .....

Lannis

Lannis,

Your bike was new though (never started), my bike was used, 75 miles, so different pieces and parts were replaced if I remember correctly. You could be just fine.

Mike is attempting to get this covered under warranty even though my bike is out of warranty because I had to wait for almost 3 months for the parts to arrive. They are closed today so I probably won't hear anything until Wednesday. Looks like I'll be on my BMW F650GS at the State Rally.

 

[WayneOrwig]

I parked the bike, let it cool and pulled the valve cover, found nothing a miss or loose in the valve train.

So does that mean the tappets had no wear (no clearance change) and only the cam lobe was wiped out? But then, why would that make noise?

I'm confused. :unsure:
But then I usually am. :lol:

 

[kwn306]

I parked the bike, let it cool and pulled the valve cover, found nothing a miss or loose in the valve train.

So does that mean the tappets had no wear (no clearance change) and only the cam lobe was wiped out? But then, why would that make noise?

I'm confused. :unsure:
But then I usually am. :lol:

Wayne,
My terminolgy might not be 100% correct; when I say nothing was a miss........I mean the clearance between the rocker arm and valve stems were correct and no nuts had backed off the rocker arms. There was slop in what I call the tappets (the little plunger that the cam pushes back and forth that activates the rocker arms). Did I clear things up or are you more confused then before? :lol: :lol: I have emailed my dealer and requested pics to send to Pete.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Kurt, while not saying there isn't a problem the fact that the valve clearances were still 'Correct' makes me wonder if the cams themselves are unduly worn. If your machine had previously failed then it really is imperative that at the very least the sump be removed so that all the crap can be cleaned out Guzzi's suggestion that a simple 'Flush' will suffice is patent BS.

HAving said that I'll be very interested to see this 'Burnishing' and 'Pitting'. Every 8V cam I've seen that has been in service has some marking to it. Usually around the nose circle where what look like 'Tide Marks' are evident. As for the 'Pitting'? I have no idea.

The early 8V's ARE, or at least can be, extraordinarily oisy from the top end. Mine sounds like a tumble dryer full of rocks! That's the season the factor has redesigned the camshafts so that the new ones acn be shimmed for end float. One thing that IS important is that your dealer is aware that any 'Old' bike use the 'Old' camshaft OR, if the 'New' camshaft is used it is essential that it be installed WITH THE CORRECT SHIM otherwise damage will occur as the cam lashes fore and aft.

Please make sure your dealer is familiar with the service bulletin below before any repairs are attempted.

http://www.servicemotoguzzi.com/public/ ... 4-2010.pdf

This information has been on the site since last december. When was the recall work performed?

Pete

 

[kwn306]

Thanks Pete, I sent my dealer a email with the info.

 

[kwn306]

Dealer still has not sent pictures of the damage goods, but I did get a call from the owner this afternoon, Good News, Good News!!!! Mama Guzzi is going to cover the repair under warranty even though my warranty ran out in January.

According to Guzzi the parts in my bike are the updated parts, that was confirmed this morning. I was the lucky fool to get the first set of parts in the US. Guzzi wants the parts to see what happened, so they will be sent to NY and then across the pond to Italy, I guess.

Now the waiting game for the parts to come across the pond, I been told it could be 1 - 2 months for the parts to arrive. Though I'm not please about that; the alternative would be waiting for the parts and having to pay for them and the labor, that would be expensive.

Kudos to Steelhorse Classics for going to bat for me.

Pete, I will get some pictures and send them to you sooner or later. A question to you sir......the tech bulliten you sent me about shimming the cam. Was that set of instructions included with the new updated parts? My bike was updated in early April, figure it took a month or more to get the stuff from Italy and through customs in the US. If that shim job was not done would that have given a short life span to the updated parts? Hmmm, might have answered my own question, updated parts installed in 4/2009, service bulliten date 4/2010.

BTW, the owner told me the marks on the cam look like tide marks like you stated.

 

[Penis Rotor]

If the parts are going to take that long I'm pretty sure i've got tappets in stock and a perfect pair of cams taken out of a real low-mile 8V Griso. I can send 'em your way if you want and then the replacements can be sent to me. Downside is you'd get not 100% brand new cams but these are undamaged and only a few hundred Km old.

I don't know when the 'New' camshafts with shims became available.

shimless camshaft is #976445 I believe, although the parts page shows the shim the 2008 model which uses that part # is different to the 2009 model which uses part #8776384 but that IS listed as the Stelvio 1200 - NTX - ABS 1200 2009-2010. To be honest I really don't know but if the 'New' shimmed cam is installed without a shim it will cause an unholy amount of end-float, almost certainly a lot of noise and most likely damage.

Pete

 

[pauldaytona]

There was one here where new cams were installed, but the dealer didn't read/have the bulletin, that cost a second set of cams. Guzzi send only the cams as warrrenty, not the shims, and the shims took another 4 weeks because they weren't in stock. So if you get the cams that need the shimming, and that are all, only not the 2008 cams, make shure they order shims in each size with it.

 

[RJVB]

Re: delays: we've seen 2-3 month delays here in France lately, with warranty-related issues, so 1-2 across the pond almost seems a luxury...

 

[kwn306]

Just found out cams are in the US, but no shims. So the shims are the delay.

 

[WayneOrwig]

I'm sort of embarrased to mention this, but I have been adding a bit of snake oil to the crankcase for every oil change.
I'm not convinced that Guzzi has everything figured out with the 4 valve cams, material hardness, spring loading and such. This stuff makes me feel better, but I'll never know if it is really helping.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002TA ... 15ZR6FKMK2

 

[Lannis]

I'm sort of embarrased to mention this, but I have been adding a bit of snake oil to the crankcase for every oil change.

Marvel Mystery Oil, is it?

The bottle it comes in is BEAUTIFUL! It's hard not to buy some ....

Lannis

 

[draidt]

I'm sort of embarrased to mention this, but I have been adding a bit of snake oil to the crankcase for every oil change.
I'm not convinced that Guzzi has everything figured out with the 4 valve cams, material hardness, spring loading and such. This stuff makes me feel better, but I'll never know if it is really helping.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002TA ... 15ZR6FKMK2

Nothing to be embarrassed about, Red Line Makes much the same only they call it Break in Additive, I am looking real hard at the Griso SE at Rider's Hill and prolly do the same