V100 Tech Talk

[GTM®]

I just got ahold of the parts PDF for the V100 (now in the DOWNLOADS section), and I saw my first major disappointment with the engine. The cylinders are part of the engine cases, which if any of those here know of the past failures of some of the other major brands using this "design" (Honda VTR-1000 is one), it's never a good ending, Hopefully Guzzi is far smarter than Honda with durability. Also, this makes it NEARLY impossible for easy bigger displacement options. They moved the alternator rearward (behind the throttle bodies), but it does look to be of the same spec as the CARC models, which is a plus. The vast majority of the fuel tank looks to be the air box, which was another concern since I haven't seen capacity specs yet, and it looks like the tank is plastic and resides behind the air box. I has hoping for more clever placement.
Edit: I originally said… I'm still buying one of course. BUT Piaggio thought it was best to try and take down this website, weeks prior to the V100’s arrival, which cost me thousands of $’s - SoPiaggio.

 

[Louisv97]

Could you say that the block is a lot more rigid compared to cylinders that can be separated? Thats the only upside I can see other than costs of manufacturing and water leaking into oil passages
Must be alot of fun to bore those babies out. Though im sure you're crafting some secret sauce already.

 

[scott_m]

I was afraid of this. I had heard from one my friends in Italy that this was the case. I was seriously hoping it was a mistake.

 

[Andrew Donald]

Does it look like the cylinders have liners pressed in?

 

[scott_m]

I doubt it. That would defeat the purpose of engineering the cost savings advantage.

I’m betting they are bored aluminum alloy with Nigusil linings. After all, Moto Guzzi invented Nigusil.

 

[Andrew Donald]

I doubt it. That would defeat the purpose of engineering the cost savings advantage.

I’m betting they are bored aluminum alloy with Nigusil linings. After all, Moto Guzzi invented Nigusil.

So in the second drawing from top there are some liner looking bits in between pt #3 & 4 that only have a sm square notation. What are they? Def not pistons.

 

[GTM®]

So in the second drawing from top there are some liner looking bits in between pt #3 & 4 that only have a sm square notation. What are they? Def not pistons.

I’d call those piston liner sleeves, yes. Perhaps that is how Guzzi plans on doing the bigger bores on this engine.

 

[scott_m]

I looked at the parts manual in detail.

You two are correct.

My guess was mistaken and it seems that they are using insert liners. You can see the o-rings and grub screws. I wonder if they are “pressed in” in the traditional sense, or they slide into place as they looked index coded and those grub screws look like retainers.

Fun to guess though.

Curiously, on the plate of the valves, there are like a dozen different dimensional parts listed but only the one little black square dilineates the sleeve but they do list 3 different piston sets.

I guess they are keeping it hush-hush for the moment it would seem.

 

[DeadEye]

I was wondering where that belt for the Alternator goes ? being sandwiched in the middle of everything doesn’t make servicing look easy…

 

[GTM®]

but they do list 3 different piston sets.
I guess they are keeping it hush-hush for the moment it would seem.

My guess is that the piston sets are weight based for balancing.
Guessing indeed. As a journo, I’ve been through many complex OEM Press events where they drown you in details. Not Guzzi: Keep’em guessing, haha.

 

[GTM®]

I was wondering where that belt for the Alternator goes ? being sandwiched in the middle of everything doesn’t make servicing look easy…

Hopefully they give you simple access, but belt tension isn’t an often repetitive task. Belt replacement when the time comes on the other hand. We shall see.
This is a huge departure from simple into the overly complex for Piaggio’s Guzzi. At least basic service will remain easy outside of electronic resets. Upside for me is that I am somewhat ready to tackle the V100 for fueling mods.

 

[GTM®]

Could you say that the block is a lot more rigid compared to cylinders that can be separated?

I’m not an engineer, per se (but I do have a minor in structural calculations for construction), but yes this is likely the case as most auto engines are done this way (solid cast or CNC machined blocks). However that said, the simplicity of Guzzi’s big block will be forever locked into my mind and hands. VW and Porsche enjoyed it too for more than a half century, and a great deal of aviation engines still do as well.
Oh well, Godspeed air-cooled Guzzi big blocks.

 

[Mindis]

I love how it's being dissected before even first ride LOL I'm same the way dreaming of some mods I could do...

 

[tris]

I guess if it's sleeved some clever engineer in the future will fit the sleeves from a skid steer loader and the pistons from a Fiesta XR2 and turn it into a 1.8 litre stump pulling monster
I'm sure creativity in the Guzzi community won't disappear with this bike

 

[lucky phil]

I don't see what the OP's issue with this is. It's a wet sleeve engine with removeable sleeves and cylinders formed integral with the crankcases. Great design, superior rigidity and replaceable liners which will be a slip fit and retained by the cylinder head. Similar system to the that of the Ducati V2 Panigale although the Panigale engine has a superior closed deck design than the open deck on the new Guzzi engine which I don't particularly like. The closed deck is much stronger and has better liner support.
Pistons and liners will be matched for size as is the std practice and the three set screw are to locate the cylinder liner and prevent rotation of the liner in the cylinder/crankcase assembly.

Phil

 

[Dinsdale Piranha]

... and a great deal of aviation engines still do as well.
Oh well, Godspeed air-cooled Guzzi big blocks.

Hmmm, but most air cooled aircraft engines have their heads and barrels in 1 piece. I don't see the intergrated barrel/block being such a bad thing, particularly given that they're using sleeves. What could be an issue down the track is whether or not they're wet sleeves - who's owned an older Alpha Romeo?

 

[lucky phil]

Hmmm, but most air cooled aircraft engines have their heads and barrels in 1 piece. I don't see the intergrated barrel/block being such a bad thing, particularly given that they're using sleeves. What could be an issue down the track is whether or not they're wet sleeves - who's owned an older Alpha Romeo?

This is true ( well one piece as in head screwed onto the cylinder) and yes the new Guzzi engine is a wet sleeve.

Phil

 

[Louisv97]

I don't see what the OP's issue with this is. It's a wet sleeve engine with removeable sleeves and cylinders formed integral with the crankcases. Great design, superior rigidity and replaceable liners which will be a slip fit and retained by the cylinder head. Similar system to the that of the Ducati V2 Panigale although the Panigale engine has a superior closed deck design than the open deck on the new Guzzi engine which I don't particularly like. The closed deck is much stronger and has better liner support.
Pistons and liners will be matched for size as is the std practice and the three set screw are to locate the cylinder liner and prevent rotation of the liner in the cylinder/crankcase assembly.

Phil

The OP makes big bore kits for several guzzis so i can understand his issue with it.

 

[GTM®]

although the Panigale engine has a superior closed deck design than the open deck on the new Guzzi engine which I don't particularly like. The closed deck is much stronger and has better liner support.

I own an early (2015) open deck Ford 3.5L V6 TT, v2.0 is closed deck and superior. But this isn’t my point, which you clearly missed; The beauty in the design and simplicity of the big block is now completely gone. Gone are the days of simple rod up engine rebuilds while the motor remains in the frame.
Have you ever rebuilt a Guzzi big block?

 

[lucky phil]

Well if you want to remove the pistons and sleeves then yes it's an engine strip. Yes the days of rod up rebuilds with the engine in the frame are somewhat gone but it's the modern world and engines are basically designed for ease of production line assembly and minimum machining processes not for post production maintenance at all. It's obviously doable but they don't give it a priority in the design. I'm with you, I wish it was otherwise but at least they have kept the 2 piece rods instead of the one piece rods and pressed up crank on some of the later small blocks and replaceable sleeves. The crank mounted primary drive and cam drives are separate items and not integral with the crank which is good. You win some and lose some.
Have I built a Guzzi big block engines?

v11lemans.com/forums/topic/20664-v11-daytona-project/


Phil