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V7 III Evap/Tip removal

JACoH said:
OK, thanks, I did the same but sliced my finger trying to get the hoses onto the slug.
Click to expand...

I eased the slug into the hose with a coating of WD40, then quickly grabbed both sides with two pair of pliers and pulled them together. The WD40 effectively melts the rubber inside the hose and glues it to the slug that way.

I then bloodied my calf again by scraping it across Racer's very sharp footpeg ... sigh. Really do have to stop working around the motorcycle with shorts on!
 
Godfrey said:
You’re inspiring me to think of my own horror stories...

I had an Alfa Romeo Spider that came up with a clogged EVAP system on the way home from Reno, NV about a decade and a half back. The result of being at high altitude when the EVAP clogged meant maximum vacuum in the fuel tank ... when I got back to sea level and rolled into the garage, it sputtered and died. I did some checking ... no fuel flowing. I called my mechanic, he took the cover off the gas tank. It was crumpled like a used foil candy wrapper.

“Well, whatever fuel pump you once had ... I can’t figure out how I’d even get it out of that mess. ...1” We had to cut the tank off its mounting points to get it out of there. Couldn’t salvage a single piece of it.

This sort of problem is a rarity, for sure. Luckily, since that car was an amalgam of three Spiders I had taken apart to build one really nice one, I had a couple of spare fuel tanks and all the various bits of plumbing that had been destroyed. Luckily including a spare Bosch EFI fuel pump and regulator assembly... that would have been pricey to replace! :)
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Ahhh, now I get it..... is an Italian thing that happened long long ago ago in a far away place...

Maybe I shoud switch to drum brakes cause I had issues with the very early disk brakes, I hear balloon tires wire a real pita when 1st introduced, anyone know where I can find a set of solid rubber donuts for my bikes... :( ......:happy:.......:nod:

Paul
 
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OK, now I am a believer, too. I did the above evap hose mods yesterday, and went for a 150 mile ride today 'cause, well, 70 degrees and sunny. I did the GTRx reflash 4000 miles ago, but today I was amazed, somehow the 2 together, just as Todd said, transforms this bike. It seems smoother, 3500 rpm is now usable where 4000 was minimum before to get it to move in any gear. Now I guess I am just waiting for Santa to bring me the Agostinis.
 
Unfortunately, Paul, the EVAP failure I experienced recently was on a 2017 model Moto Guzzi, not some ancient piece of junk. It had nothing to do with the braking system.
 
Godfrey said:
I then bloodied my calf again by scraping it across Racer's very sharp footpeg ... sigh. Really do have to stop working around the motorcycle with shorts on!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've done that on my 1200 Sports. I gotta remember to stop sharpening those metal footpegs up on the tarmac.
 
GT-Rx® said:
...
  • If you plan on leaving the evap can in place... Instead of cutting the (tank breather) tip over valve line and removing it, I highly recommend gutting the valve by popping it apart, or installing a fitting that allows the vapors to flow into the canister if you don't want any fuel smells in your garage. If you leave vented to open air, be aware that fuel will flow from this line while the tank is topped off at any sudden stop or side-standing of the bike.
  • If you remove the evap can and care about the smell, I am working on making a nice small inline filter that will help with fumes. I will put it online when I have it well tested.
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Follow-up note:
Having run with the EVAP disabled as above for several hundred miles and a couple of weeks now ...
  • There are no fuel smells from the static bike when its sitting.
  • There are no fuel smells when riding with the tank topped-up to the normal full level.
  • When the tank is approaching the reserve fuel level, I get a little whiff of fuel smell at slow speed when I hit the brakes hard or hit a bump.

I think this is because the mostly empty tank allows more fuel to slosh around and the vapors expand out the breather hose, which ends kinda high up behind/below the starter. I think if I extended the breather hose back down to the bottom of the bike (like it was on my LeMans) and necked the hose down or capped it with a little filter, the smells would disappear.
 
Would making this modification require a flash to the ECU to ensure correct running? Also how does making this modification affect your warranty?

I would think that the company could deny claims regarding the engine as you have disabled/removed certain components.

Maya
 
Mayakovski said:
Would making this modification require a flash to the ECU to ensure correct running? Also how does making this modification affect your warranty?

I would think that the company could deny claims regarding the engine as you have disabled/removed certain components.

Maya
Click to expand...

I don't believe this would require any reflash of the ECU, it's only a breather after all.

But I agree that if you're bike had issues, the dealer might blame the modifications and deny a warranty claim. Mods have to be done discreetly or out of warranty.

I've just discovered my V7-III Stone has tank suck. Like my Cali 1400, I think I'll just remove the innards of the valve for now, and go the whole hog after my warranty has expired. Unfortunately, I have to do services via the dealer to keep the warranty active.

On another note, how is the V7-III service spanner icon reset? Is this something that has to be done by the dealer using PADs or similar, or is there a technique using the dashboard buttons like the earlier models?

I haven't been able to find any information anywhere, and fear I might be in a similar position as the Cali 1400 (until I discovered the service code password).
 
For a warranty claim to be denied because of a modification, it has to be proved that the modification was the direct cause of the issue. However it seems that Moto Guzzi will deny a claim any chance they get.
 
kiwi dave said:
I don't believe this would require any reflash of the ECU, it's only a breather after all.
Click to expand...
It’s not, it’s an emissions component as it pumps air into the exhaust port.
Good to know on the tank suck Dave.
I haven’t yet had a light come on yet and I’m beyond when it should come on. Please post if anyone here has seen one.

There are long threads here on fueling.
 
Raven said:
For a warranty claim to be denied because of a modification, it has to be proved that the modification was the direct cause of the issue. However it seems that Moto Guzzi will deny a claim any chance they get.
Click to expand...

Ha! The Auckland dealer service manager noticed that I had connected heated grips, radar detector and an SAE connector cable directly across my battery on my Griso 1200SE. Each circuit was protected by an in line fuse.

I was having issues with the battery discharging with the ignition key switched off, making it difficult to start after a week or so of non use. The discharge current could be measured across one of the 30A fuses, but not across any of the smaller fuses. The service manager said any warranty was null & void because nothing is allowed to be connected directly to the battery.

Where do all these rules come from? Invented by local dealers who can't be arsed lodging a claim I suspect.
 
I did the first service on my V7 III a bit early at 750 miles. It's 900 for the 2017.
I do not remember ever seeing a service light come on and I'm at 3000 miles now. I did reset the shift light at that time and the traction was set to 1. Both were a PITA! So either it doesn't have one or it's connected in with the other two.
 
The manual says that the service light does not come on for the first service. Mine certainly hasn't. :)

My dealer, when I mentioned the EVAP system was disabled, simply said, "You know, that's required by law; we cannot remove it. And it's truly amazing how many customers come in for service and we discover that it's fallen off the bike ... It doesn't affect anything so we don't care." :D
 
GT-Rx® said:
It’s not, it’s an emissions component as it pumps air into the exhaust port.
Click to expand...
This is confusing to me, in the context of this thread. I thought the breather/canister system was quite discreet from the forced air system you describe in the quote above. I plan to do both when I receive the appropriate bits from you. Are there some common components in the 2 systems? Bear in mind that this my 1st Gutz, 1st FI engine and 1st bike with emissions crap on it, and I've not removed the tank for a looky yet.
 
DP, the EVAP emissions canister is a completely different system from the Supplemental Air Injection system. You don't have to remove the tank to see and modify either of them ... see the photos above tor the EVAP system. For the SAI system, you have to lift the tank a couple of inches to reach the bolts and hoses easily, that's all.

Although they are completely separate systems, they both can affect air/fuel ratios in a secondary way and cause undesirable behavior:
  • The EVAP system can cause lean running if the valve jams open because the vacuum tap it works through is upstream of the inlet valve. It can also apply vacuum to the fuel tank, causing fuel starvation and (in a bad case) oil-can the fuel tank. Essentially in this situation, the fuel pump has to work against the vacuum applied by the EVAP tap, so it could also damage the fuel pump.
  • The SAI feeds air after the exhaust valve to accommodate spikes of overly rich mixtures going to the catalytic converter. This makes the downstream mixture lean out ... in the absence of the catalytic converters' baffling, it causes the mixture to explode in the exhaust pipe and thus the "barking" or "popping" sounds. There's a small reduction in power every time it pops, but essentially since it's happening after the exhaust valve, it's not affecting basic power production. Blocking it off removes the barking and popping ... particularly in the absence of a catalytic converter, where it is completely unnecessary.
Both of these systems are intended to preserve the life and function of the catalytic converter. The problems they cause are secondary to their function. If you're going to run an exhaust without catcons, there's no need for them. I disabled the EVAP system first to prevent it oil canning the fuel tank, since I noticed vacuum building up in the fuel tank and odd running behavior within only a couple of hundred miles from new. A side benefit of disabling it and removing the EVAP canister is that it's easier to fit a center-lift stand (the Pit Bull item) in order to service the motorcycle.

After fitting the Agostini mufflers and having GT produce a customized engine map for them, Racer now runs almost perfectly ... The only glitch is the SAI induced popping on overrun. So I'll shortly remove the SAI system: it's totally unnecessary without a catalytic converter to protect.

G
 
Two of the three clips that hold the left side cover screws snapped in half while I was doing this. Where do you source clips that aren't as fragile as the brittle factory clips?
 
I got the ones I'm using from my dealer out of, I think, the Ducati parts listing. Same piece, but a bit sturdier construction.

#85040551A "Quick Fastening" $2.12@
 
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