V85TT reliability

[christian sunde]

Thank you Pridanc and Jason, in your opinion is a 2021 v85tt in desperate need of a remap. I am a little concerned about it running hot, although I live in a region of cool summers and brutal Winters

 

[Vagrant]

From my V85 experience, if you go in for ANY work where they will have to hook it up to PADS you must reinstall the old map. The exhaust must be stock for Guzzi to consider warranty work.

 

[jwtucker]

Thank you Pridanc and Jason, in your opinion is a 2021 v85tt in desperate need of a remap. I am a little concerned about it running hot, although I live in a region of cool summers and brutal Winters

I wouldn't say desperate need, no. Sure, there are some gains to be had, but if the bike is otherwise stock (i.e. you haven't replaced or de-catted the exhaust) then the stock map is generally fine.

From my V85 experience, if you go in for ANY work where they will have to hook it up to PADS you must reinstall the old map. The exhaust must be stock for Guzzi to consider warranty work.

That's an E4 problem. E5 bikes have a totally different ECU and can't (so far) be directly remapped at all, unless it's OEM by the dealer. All E5 ECU tuning (again, so far) is doe via piggyback devices like the UpMap that don't alter the base map on the ECU. Whether or not something like the UpMap causes problems for dealer diags? Don't know. But you could simply unplug it if it was a problem.

As for a dealer denying any warranty work if you don't have a stock exhaust, that's shady. Sounds like a direct violation of the Magnuson-Moss Act to me. If aftermarket parts caused a problem, its upon them to to prove it. They can't, by law, arbitrarily deny warranty work.

__Jason

 

[GTM®]

All E5 ECU tuning (again, so far) is doe via piggyback devices like the UpMap that don't alter the base map on the ECU. Whether or not something like the UpMap causes problems for dealer diags? Don't know. But you could simply unplug it if it was a problem.

Hey Jason, just a FYI, UpMap actually does write the map to the ECU. It can be removed at any time and the bike will still run as it should with the new map in place. If you leave it in place, you have access to all of the cool features that is offers per the link earlier in the thread.

 

[Vagrant]

Guzzi not the dealer wanted to hear the bike running while hooked to pads. When they heard the pipe they said to put it back to stock, ride and then hook it up and call back. Times are changing and if you drive 250 miles each way to a dealer you had best be prepared!

 

[jwtucker]

Hey Jason, just a FYI, UpMap actually does write the map to the ECU. It can be removed at any time and the bike will still run as it should with the new map in place. If you leave it in place, you have access to all of the cool features that is offers per the link earlier in the thread.

Ah, thanks for the clarification! My assumption was based on something I read previously about UpMap which led me to believe it worked more like a fancy Power Commander. This definitely seems like an interesting option.

__Jason

 

[kglm]

..I have had problems.. E4 model 2019 #68 -so very early built- at the beginning oil consumption was about 0.6liter/1000km caused by wrongly assembled oil rings on right cylinder, all end gaps was in same position. => New cylinder/piston replaced right side under warranty -2000km on clock that point. The whole work lasted four weeks; first set which Piaggio send to dealer was out of the manufacturing tolerances -too tight. All these tells poor quality control. Rear drive seals replaced, Recall work, no leak in my bike.
After that cylinder changing oil consumption was about 0.1l/1000km, acceptable for air cooled. Last July engine pushed oil in airbox without any warnings, ie I didn`t notice anything performance lost or so in normal riding. (36000km riden) Have to take old V11 to France/Italy tour...
When I opened the engine to found reason for high pressure inside the crankcase I found something unbeliavable: Both side compression rings end gaps measured 3-10mm!!? Top of the cylinders feelable step. Everything else was ok, no oil circuit problem. No leak over airfilter. The only explanation in my opinion is serious material failure or wrong material choices which don`t work together.
Now the sad part: Our importer replaced year ago -Piaggio Nordic in Sweden "take care" all Piaggio sales in Sweden, Norway and Finland where I live. My bike warranty was exceeded three moths but the consumer law here said that; "Items should last expected time" I have contacted my dealer here and asked new parts. After four month no answer... Problem is somewhere Sweden or Piaggio Italy. I`m disappointed how the Piaggio handle customers. I believe that my bike is like that gearbox without oil -bad individual mistake (and poor quality control) It seems that without large scale publicity you don`t get anything.

-KG-

 

[Vagrant]

You are not alone! I too had to have the rings and valve seals replaced at 20,000 miles. It started running poorly (no power, missing under a load, unsafe to pass) at 15,000 or so and different maps didn't cure it. The heads and pistons were carbon crusted. Mine was one of the first brought to the US. It still had 6 months warranty left but took 3 months to get parts. It took some arm twisting but I got them to extend the warranty 6 months. I only got to put on 60 miles before I left for the winter and it seemed fine.
Thanks for letting us know! It was driving me nuts because they wouldn't explain why they did what they did.

 

[Pridanc]

Thank you Pridanc and Jason, in your opinion is a 2021 v85tt in desperate need of a remap. I am a little concerned about it running hot, although I live in a region of cool summers and brutal Winters

Christian,
Clearly GTM can make these engines run better (as evidenced by their dyno curves and reviews etc) as better is often felt as throttle behavior if not outright superior performance. Other than honest to gosh dyno numbers,"better" is in the seat of the beholder but full disclosure I have yet to use a new tune on my E5 Goose, but from what I hear about Todd's tunes, I will be doing this soon.

Now back to speaking about running specifics: The bike has an interesting idle hunting/surging shortly after cold start but goes away once a modicum of heat is present or, as it does on my bike, you can raise the idle with the twist grip just a tad for a few moments and then the idle is perfect which brings me back to "a modicum" of heat statement. Most often I do nothing. I start the bike to warm and it does this funky dance and then quickly settles into a nice idle. Works for me.

Next: Once warm, which is the only time I've actually noticed what I'm about to describe so this could happen even when cold, the engine behavior and throttle response say from idle to 2000-ish rpm when not slipping the clutch is not good as it is too abrubt IMO. The only time I notice this is when "plonking" off road in some rocky sections and I have no doubt this is the kind of thing that will be helped with the tune. You might think this would be an issue simply taking off from a stop but I think that you are giving the engine enough throttle as to mask the issue not to mention you are slipping the clutch.

At no other time do I feel any poor behaviour. Again this does not mean there isn't power hiding out there but I feel no glitches as it were. There is, of course, a however. When I pulled the header pipes to de-cat the bike (I cut my header / down pipes off from the cat) I noticed that the back side of the exhaust valves were china-white. As in china plates. I've never known this to be a good thing over the long run but still, to date, the bike runs flawlessly and I've never noticed a lean running condition in all normal use RPM's even if a valve (and spark plugs BTW) this color would indicate a lean running condition.

I may hook up to the ECU and watch the Lambda sensors to see how quickly they warm and start working as a help particularly during the cold start idle hunting/surging but only out of curiosity as I don't think they are being used by the ECU that early in startup. Regarless, I don't feel any draw back to any of this OE behavior as I use the bike. YMMV however right? Not sure I've answered your question but to be specific: I feel that the E5 tune from the factory is absolutely fine 99.5% of the time.

And finally, although the dealer might complain about your exhaust, or air filter, or framostat thingie as a way to try to claim warranty issues, those words are pure BS in the USA as others here have noted. (I'm not saying a tune falls into my words here but if the E5 gadget that GTM is selling is a piggy back device, then reverting back to stock before going to your dealer is simply an un-plug away)

I've been in the automotive world for most of my life and know that dealers cannot claim that changing some items voids warranty. It is pure BS and fear tactics. Don't forget however that most are franchises so can run their store as they wish. Just don't do business with them if at all possible.

Enjoy your ride. All the best, PC

 

[99sidude]

I've had slight oil leak issues on my 2020 since new - on both sides of the engine.

Left side seems to be either the oil cap or the case seam where the crankshaft is.

Right side the original oil pressure switch developed an internal leak, and then the threads came out with the old unit when I removed it...

Time to either split the case or pray that the remaining threads hold up (so far new one isn't leaking).

 

[MattyGuzzi]

I've had slight oil leak issues on my 2020 since new - on both sides of the engine.

Left side seems to be either the oil cap or the case seam where the crankshaft is.

Right side the original oil pressure switch developed an internal leak, and then the threads came out with the old unit when I removed it...

Time to either split the case or pray that the remaining threads hold up (so far new one isn't leaking).

View attachment 24733View attachment 24734View attachment 24735View attachment 24736

That has been a commonly reported issue. It's an easy fix. Go through and check all the bolts around the case and give them a tightening. This solved the problem for me, as I found several that were loose.

 

[99sidude]

That has been a commonly reported issue. It's an easy fix. Go through and check all the bolts around the case and give them a tightening. This solved the problem for me, as I found several that were loose.

I had this issue earlier in ownership and did this exact thing. The problem ended up being an overtorqued oil pressure sending unit. The threads were literally half stripped out, which caused the leak.

My dealer ended up doing a helicoil in the block to replace the threads. No more leaks.

 

[scott_m]

99.9% of the time, tightening something to stop oil leaks, is the absolutely wrong thing you can do. This is why threads get stripped like that. It is unfortunate.

 

[99sidude]

99.9% of the time, tightening something to stop oil leaks, is the absolutely wrong thing you can do. This is why threads get stripped like that. It is unfortunate.

My stripped sending unit came from the factory!

 

[scott_m]

My stripped sending unit came from the factory!

Ok...but highly unlikely really.

Far more likely that it was tightened by an unseasoned mechanic during the PDI Pre-Delivery Inspection. Probably saw some oil and figured "tighten it".

The factory uses calibrated tools for setting torque values on assembled motorcycles, especially where steel is being threaded into aluminum. I've witnessed it firsthand.

Why people think the factory is so stupid is bewildering to me.

Anyway, the best way to resolve those types of oil leaks, is with some Hylomar Blue.

 

[GTM®]

The factory uses calibrated tools for setting torque values on assembled motorcycles, especially where steel is being threaded into aluminum. I've witnessed it firsthand.

Not to contradict this Scott, but the last handful of years has been abysmal out of the crate. I think all of the people that cared left the building.

 

[Vagrant]

I'd bet $500. that there is not one PDI wrench in the US who would take the time to remove the cover over the pressure sending unit and check it's torque. I have got to agree with GT. The performance at the factory sucks.

 

[scott_m]

Then go buy a damn Honda and be happy!

I find no satisfaction in bashing Moto Guzzi. What does it do for you, the marque, and the brand in general? What are you trying to accomplish by doing it? It perplexes me.

If your goal is to tear them down, then I cannot get behind that and will actively oppose it as counterproductive to literally everything related to Moto Guzzi.

Piaggio has gambled heavily and invested millions of dollars into Moto Guzzi, and continues to do so. They should be commended, not maligned.

I support them and applaud their efforts.

 

[MattyGuzzi]

Then go buy a damn Honda and be happy!

I find no satisfaction in bashing Moto Guzzi. What does it do for you, the marque, and the brand in general? What are you trying to accomplish by doing it? It perplexes me.

If your goal is to tear them down, then I cannot get behind that and will actively oppose it as counterproductive to literally everything related to Moto Guzzi.

Piaggio has gambled heavily and invested millions of dollars into Moto Guzzi, and continues to do so. They should be commended, not maligned.

I support them and applaud their efforts.

I agree. No, its not a Honda. I could get an Africa Twin. I wouldn't have to think about service at all. But I would also own a very pedestrian Honda. Nothing looks like the V85TT. I recently put a deposit on a new Taureg 660 and, though I could tell immediately that it was more capable in the dirt, was mostly unmoved from my V85TT.

 

[scott_m]

LOL. Let me tell you the #1 broken motorcycle in my workshop, time and again. HONDA.

It is the greatest exaggeration and lie that Japanese motorcycles don't have issues and don't break. They have plenty of both I assure you. Even the new ones...