Farway
Cruisin' Guzzisti
What goes wrong with flat tappets and what are the consequence's?
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What goes wrong with flat tappets??
- Thread starter Farway
- Start date
pokeyjoe
High Miler
Nothing is wrong with flat tappets. Unfortunately, oil formulations have changed over the years and if you don't have enough zinc (ZDDP) in your oil, the tappets/cam will wear prematurely. The Guzzi design is as good as it ever was. Unfortunately, oil is not. Oil manufacturers have been pressured by automobile manufacturers to remove zinc so that their catalytic converters will last 100,000 or more. Blame the EPA.
If you are comparing oils, I believe the magic number for zinc is 1200 ppm.
BTW, MG is not the only company struggling with this. The 2.0 liter turbo in my VW uses a cam follower for the high pressure fuel pump (direct injection) that suffers from the same problem. Despite the DLC (diamond like carbon) coating on the follower, some owners have experienced failures and VW has extended the warranty on those engines (produced from 2006 to 2008) to 120,000 miles for those failures. Mid 2008 VW changed the engine design and the high pressure pump is now driven off the timing chain. Basically, VW gave up and changed the design. MG is doing the same by going to roller tappets.
I bought a zinc additive and add it to my oil (in both my V7 and my VW).
If you are comparing oils, I believe the magic number for zinc is 1200 ppm.
BTW, MG is not the only company struggling with this. The 2.0 liter turbo in my VW uses a cam follower for the high pressure fuel pump (direct injection) that suffers from the same problem. Despite the DLC (diamond like carbon) coating on the follower, some owners have experienced failures and VW has extended the warranty on those engines (produced from 2006 to 2008) to 120,000 miles for those failures. Mid 2008 VW changed the engine design and the high pressure pump is now driven off the timing chain. Basically, VW gave up and changed the design. MG is doing the same by going to roller tappets.
I bought a zinc additive and add it to my oil (in both my V7 and my VW).
Farway
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Thanks for that...probably worth looking into additives then!! I assume the 10/60 is as good as it can get within the current restrictions then...
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
The viscosity rating has nothing to do with ZDDP levels.
IMO you should go for an oil with the highest ZDDP you can get but this may only be part of the problem. My own feeling is a lot of the 'Issues' are created by owners and shops that don't think and like to lie around feebly flapping their flippers and complaining about how hard done by they are when a lot of the problem is due to them trying to use a sledgehammer to crack an egg.
YOMV, I really don't care.
Pete
IMO you should go for an oil with the highest ZDDP you can get but this may only be part of the problem. My own feeling is a lot of the 'Issues' are created by owners and shops that don't think and like to lie around feebly flapping their flippers and complaining about how hard done by they are when a lot of the problem is due to them trying to use a sledgehammer to crack an egg.
YOMV, I really don't care.
Pete
Farway
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Other than the oil breather pipe, how would oil vapours contaminate the cat??
(Sorry Pete. I did interpret that slightly wrong!)
(Sorry Pete. I did interpret that slightly wrong!)
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Not vapours, oil leaking past rings once the engine is past its prime. Having said the I know of one old Cali II owned by a well respected member of this board who has over 200,000 MILES on his engine and it has never had the heads and barrels off.........
Pete
Pete
Daniel Kalal
Cruisin' Guzzisti
pete roper said:
Heh. and I know of a Cal2 with over 300,000 miles still running original rings and not requiring oil between changes.
But; you know what? I've decided that I'm not interested in taking that bike to 400,000 miles when the new bikes are just so much better in every way. And, why did I open this thread in the first place? Because in a few days I'm picking up a new Stelvio. If the 2013 Griso only had a bigger tank, I'd likely be going for that, but 8.5 gallons just makes me smile. Now, there are no limits to where I can go.
Keep in mind, it is not only the new Guzzi's that have flat tappets. Most of them do. V11's and Cali's, etc.
Many other brand motors have flat tappets too. It is a perfectly reasonable way to actuate the valves.
The ZDDP level, much more so then the weight of the oil, and making sure the oil gets up to temp so it can burn off the condensation seems key to a happy motor. That second part may be an issue for some people in some areas. If you pull a valve cover or otherwise go into the oil system and find something that looks like mayonnaise or latte foam something is not right and failure to resolve the issue will likely result in failure....
It does not matter who made the motor, water contamination in the oil will cause failure.
Many other brand motors have flat tappets too. It is a perfectly reasonable way to actuate the valves.
The ZDDP level, much more so then the weight of the oil, and making sure the oil gets up to temp so it can burn off the condensation seems key to a happy motor. That second part may be an issue for some people in some areas. If you pull a valve cover or otherwise go into the oil system and find something that looks like mayonnaise or latte foam something is not right and failure to resolve the issue will likely result in failure....
It does not matter who made the motor, water contamination in the oil will cause failure.
Farway
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Thanks for all the replies. The initial conversation did give me the "hollow stomach feel" initially by is seems trivial to be concerned about it. I know Alfa Romeo's of old had exactly the same set-up and once my dad actually got one that didn't constantly breakdown, he did manage 300 000 miles with it, no bother. I'll keep my eye on it but certainly riding the bloody thing and getting it hot/working properly would be a sensible approach any given day.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!