Wheel Spin - Is this Normal or ?

[Sempervee1]

I am going to call it done as I can get about a full spin out of the wheel after cleaning the caliper pistons, even as two fell out and I replaced them and bled the system. Front dis it gets equally as hot as the rear disk.. I'm thinking it is just the nature of a 15 year old, 48,000+ mile well worn beast. *Come this winter I will get a rebuild kit for both the front and rear if needed after getting the correct tools to pull out the pistons (like your example shows) and acquire a brembo seal kit. I want to service the swing arm and CARC pinion gear also if not the steering head bearings. The original owner never did any of this nor balanced the TBS or throttle bodies with a carb vacume device. I down loaded Guzzidiag but for now only to read as the bike is running fine as far as I can feel. Any other things I should consider? Oh, I got the Guzzidiag running on my old Mac. Just need cables and the connection to the computer. Thanks for all your input.

 

[john zibell]

I am going to call it done as I can get about a full spin out of the wheel after cleaning the caliper pistons, even as two fell out and I replaced them and bled the system. Front dis it gets equally as hot as the rear disk.. I'm thinking it is just the nature of a 15 year old, 48,000+ mile well worn beast. *Come this winter I will get a rebuild kit for both the front and rear if needed after getting the correct tools to pull out the pistons (like your example shows) and acquire a brembo seal kit. I want to service the swing arm and CARC pinion gear also if not the steering head bearings. The original owner never did any of this nor balanced the TBS or throttle bodies with a carb vacume device. I down loaded Guzzidiag but for now only to read as the bike is running fine as far as I can feel. Any other things I should consider? Oh, I got the Guzzidiag running on my old Mac. Just need cables and the connection to the computer. Thanks for all your input.

Please don't reference that software and you will get no support using it here. See https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/guzzidiag-notice.16329/ If you balance the throttle bodies the TPS must be reset electronically.

 

[scott_m]

Correct. A very very thin wipe of brake fluid lubricates them. If you use too much though, you will cause them to weep and leak as the fluid cannot be compressed.

 

[Sempervee1]

Please don't reference that software and you will get no support using it here. See https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/guzzidiag-notice.16329/ If you balance the throttle bodies the TPS must be reset electronically.

I am going to as a last material issue fine tune the brake centering with using some washers on the fork attachment lugs as shims to perfectly center the caliper. Hopefully this is the end of it.
**I had no idea, nor should I since joining the Guzziista ranks about the tribal infighting. Noted. I read the complete web jump you referenced and now I know what to expect and how i can improve my MG experience with one of Todd's ECM fueling maps. Thanks for educating me to a proven successful resource. I need to disconnect the Canister correctly and the tip over valve apparently after checking the valve adjustment. Balancing the throttle bodies is a separate issue to me address manually with a carb balancer as I understand. Thanks again.

 

[scott_m]

Look...

It is not "tribal infighting" and that is an insulting comment.

That program has the ability to destroy your motorcycle in short order. It has bricked many people's ECU's who come crawling here begging for help to repair the damage they have caused. This is not fantasy, it is a fact. I've watched it unfold for over 10 years now. They have come into and called me at my workshop, asking for the same help.

Anybody who plays with it is a fool. It is not a commercially produced nor supported program. It removes the logical protections that commercial software utilizes to protect your ECU, and has no error control nor self-correcting mechanisms whatsoever. Get the slightest glitch, erroneous electron, or just bump the cables in the slightest way, and in an instant, everything gets frozen and bricked with no recovery possible.

I still don't know why we go to such great lengths around here to try and keep people from hurting themselves with it. If you are going to be stupid, I say you should pay the price for your stupidity.

As to your "tribal infighting" comment. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Those POS Australians, Beetle, Roper, et al, stole intellectual property from Todd, then repackaged it in a ham-fisted manner, and now sell it to make money off of unsuspecting saps. They maligned Todd in every place they could including right here in these own forums. They lied, and did everything they could to directly damage his business ventures to provide these services to Guzzisti all over the world.

Todd invested $$$$$ and years of work to develop the commercial products he offers on the STORE. They work. Those of us who have it and have run with it for years, know how good it works. These assholes, tried their best to ruin him!

That's a million goddamn miles from "tribal infighting" and you need to please choose your words more carefully.

 

[Sempervee1]

Look...

It is not "tribal infighting" and that is an insulting comment.

That program has the ability to destroy your motorcycle in short order. It has bricked many people's ECU's who come crawling here begging for help to repair the damage they have caused. This is not fantasy, it is a fact. I've watched it unfold for over 10 years now. They have come into and called me at my workshop, asking for the same help.

Anybody who plays with it is a fool. It is not a commercially produced nor supported program. It removes the logical protections that commercial software utilizes to protect your ECU, and has no error control nor self-correcting mechanisms whatsoever. Get the slightest glitch, erroneous electron, or just bump the cables in the slightest way, and in an instant, everything gets frozen and bricked with no recovery possible.

I still don't know why we go to such great lengths around here to try and keep people from hurting themselves with it. If you are going to be stupid, I say you should pay the price for your stupidity.

As to your "tribal infighting" comment. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Those POS Australians, Beetle, Roper, et al, stole intellectual property from Todd, then repackaged it in a ham-fisted manner, and now sell it to make money off of unsuspecting saps. They maligned Todd in every place they could including right here in these own forums. They lied, and did everything they could to directly damage his business ventures to provide these services to Guzzisti all over the world.

Todd invested $$$$$ and year to develop the commercial products he offers on the STORE. They work. Those of us who have it and have run with it for years, know how good it works. These assholes, tried their best to ruin him!

That's a million goddamn miles from "tribal infighting" and you need to please choose your words more carefully.

I have no dog in the fight. You have to know I in no way meant it to be insulting or rude. I have no reason to disbelieve anything you said, and infact do support what Todd is doing. I don't plan on using the pirated software. Excuse my uneducated newbie status in learning mode.

 

[scott_m]

Thank you for you understanding.

Many of us are very protective of Todd and GuzziTech because in the Moto Guzzi world, this site is the finest information source we have.

It’s important and worth protecting and defending.

Especially to me.

 

[Sempervee1]

Well the inspection proved that the caliper center line is resting too far in on the disk center and needs to move out towards the fork side? Disk is 4 mm wide and the caliper split rests even on the inside 1mm line on both sides. Isn't the piston pad suppose to take up the difference? Pistons all seem to be moving and don't see an issue with a warped disk? What am I missing?

 

[Kevin.NZ]

If the pistons on either side of the disc don't move in unison its not a problem because as soon one piston abuts the disc, the piston on the opposite side will then move and put equal pressure on either side of the disc. It becomes a problem when a piston is seized. Squeeze the brake lever a few times and you'll see it center everything.

 

[Sempervee1]

If the pistons on either side of the disc don't move in unison its not a problem because as soon one piston abuts the disc, the piston on the opposite side will then move and put equal pressure on either side of the disc. It becomes a problem when a piston is seized. Squeeze the brake lever a few times and you'll see it center everything.

thanks, but infact they don't no matter how many times I adjust them with pulling off the calipers, pushing back the pads and then spinning the wheel and pumping up the pressure then hold the front brake and tighen torque the caliper bolts. **As a last ditch effort I am going to put a drill into the buttons and make sure they spin as these are suppose to be floating of sort disks, yes? Can't turn by hand but I did get them turning easy with the drill bit.

 

[Kevin.NZ]

I wouldn't worry about the caliper center line, who says its a centre line for the brakes? Ive never heard of that before, just torque the bolts up without operating the brakes, the try the brakes a few times, there will be a slight drag on the disc, I think you are over thinking this. So long as you don't have a sticky piston it'll be ok. Go for a ride, if your hard on the brakes the rotor will burn your fingers.

 

[scott_m]

I think you are over thinking this.

Agreed.

There isn’t a centerline setting on those calipers.

You do not use washers or shims.

 

[scott_m]

no matter how many times I adjust them with pulling off the calipers, pushing back the pads and then spinning the wheel and pumping up the pressure then hold the front brake and tighen torque the caliper bolts.

No. This is not how you do it. I don’t know who told you this is how you set the brakes on a motorcycle.

This is now becoming ridiculous. One last time.

Pull the calipers.

Pull the pads.

Check the pistons for a debris line. If none, great.

Ensure the pad retaining/guide pins are absolutely clean, not pitted or damaged in any way, and are lightly lubricated with brake grease before being reinserted through the caliper and pads.

Pads are fully retracted in the caliper by using the proper tool.

Mount caliper with bolts finger snug.

Apply brakes multiple times until the pads fully press against the rotors and there is nice solid pressure at the lever.

Release brakes completely.

Torque caliper bolts to final setting.

Done.

There is none of that other happy horse shit involved.

 

[Sempervee1]

I’ve done it both ways the only change is whether holding the brake while tightening or not. Outcome seems to be the same.

 

[Kevin.NZ]

Why?

 

[scott_m]

I’ve done it both ways the only change is whether holding the brake while tightening or not. Outcome seems to be the same.

Precisely.

No motorcycle gets the calipers tightened while holding the brake lever. It is superfluous.

Honestly, given the smooth rotation of your wheel unladen with the calipers, my honest opinion is that nothing is amiss. Two calipers will have a dampener effect on static rotation as I said earlier.

The ONLY remaining unknown, is if you have the pads and spring plates correctly installed (but honestly, I do not believe it would fit together any other way but I haven’t double checked on mine). Also as I said, the guide pins should be absolutely smooth and free of corrosion, pitting and debris and they should have a very light film of brake grease, to facilitate the pads sliding along the pins. Very rarely, I have removed burrs from the holes in the pads that the guide pins pass through, but this has only happened 1 or 2 times in my entire life due to improper tool use or stones, etc.

The other last item is the maker of your pads. I have seen cheap aftermarket pads that the friction material was thicker or wider than stock and this caused fitting and function issues.

The floating bobbins are worth looking after. I use a tapered dowel rod and spray them heavily with brake cleaner while spinning them with the dowel. They will never rotate freely as that is not the design, but they will loosen up and move more freely.

I will check my Norge front wheel rotation when I get home in comparison to your video. That will put the nail in this coffin lid and set your mind at ease hopefully.

 

[Sempervee1]

Precisely.

No motorcycle gets the calipers tightened while holding the brake lever. It is superfluous.

Honestly, given the smooth rotation of your wheel unladen with the calipers, my honest opinion is that nothing is amiss. Two calipers will have a dampener effect on static rotation as I said earlier.

The ONLY remaining unknown, is if you have the pads and spring plates correctly installed (but honestly, I do not believe it would fit together any other way but I haven’t double checked on mine). Also as I said, the guide pins should be absolutely smooth and free of corrosion, pitting and debris and they should have a very light film of brake grease, to facilitate the pads sliding along the pins. Very rarely, I have removed burrs from the holes in the pads that the guide pins pass through, but this has only happened 1 or 2 times in my entire life due to improper tool use or stones, etc.

The other last item is the maker of your pads. I have seen cheap aftermarket pads that the friction material was thicker or wider than stock and this caused fitting and function issues.

The floating bobbins are worth looking after. I use a tapered dowel rod and spray them heavily with brake cleaner while spinning them with the dowel. They will never rotate freely as that is not the design, but they will loosen up and move more freely.

I will check my Norge front wheel rotation when I get home in comparison to your video. That will put the nail in this coffin lid and set your mind at ease hopefully.

As finicky as Moto Guzzi is; I have successfully negotiated nearly a million miles of street riding being confidentially paranoid and anal about maintenance. Thanks for walking the path with me. * I have already used an easy out with a hand drill to rotate the bobbins which all are both flat and spun freely with implement attached but not by hand individually, as you mentioned. The pads are EBC FA244 organic which having substantial mileage on according to the service records are in remarkable shape that should last 10+K more easily. I will double check the pins this morning and the pad hanger holes more closely for burrs and re greasing and call it done. The only thing I am not sure of is how the pistons all work, should they all be in unison or only the outside pistons (Fork side where fluid enters are the more movable ones? It seems the back inside set are more static and pressed back when I pull off the calipers. That both sides are this way lead me to believe that is normal.

 

[scott_m]

Sounds good.

I have 5 Moto Guzzi currently. I have never found any of the Moto Guzzi motorcycles I have owned over my lifetime, to be what I would describe as "finicky".

It is curious how others perceive the brand. To me, they are the best crafted motorcycles in the world. The last of the hand built motorcycles and I love them dearly.

If you want to understand what it is to truly own a finicky motorcycle, may I recommend a Ural! I have one of those too. It's only taken me the better part of 5 years to work out all the bugs, and it still has one or two that show up now and again.

 

[Sempervee1]

Sounds good.

I have 5 Moto Guzzi currently. I have never found any of the Moto Guzzi motorcycles I have owned over my lifetime, to be what I would describe as "finicky".

It is curious how others perceive the brand. To me, they are the best crafted motorcycles in the world. The last of the hand built motorcycles and I love them dearly.

If you want to understand what it is to truly own a finicky motorcycle, may I recommend a Ural! I have one of those too. It's only taken me the better part of 5 years to work out all the bugs, and it still has one or two that show up now and again.

Funny you mention the Ural as I had started looking locally for one of those as I have always been fascinated by them and the ability for the owner to do most all the mechanics. I have followed their continued component improvements for the past 10 years. If It were not for lack of space URAL would have been a contender, But my heart belongs to Guzzi ever since I learned to appreciate them way back when and after owning so many other brands. *Glad ot hear as someone of your considered expertise and ownership you have not found them contrary, as that is the perception of Italian motorcycles IMHO. I hope to keep Hi-Ho silver running a long time, as I envision this as my last MC.

 

[scott_m]

My Ural GearUp 2WD is not a bad motorcycle but it is absolutely unforgiving of not being maintained on a regular basis.

The Russians love nylock nuts, and those suckers loosen up with the radical temperature changes here in Ohio.

Every major failure that I have seen in person or online in the forums, is almost invariably owner induced due to ham-fisting or negligence in maintenance.