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clutch screach... brake chatter

BIG PROBLEM!!!

Took the bike to my dealer and asked that the service manager listen to the screech when I pull away. He instead took the bike for a ride, apparently didn't hear the noise. The dealer himself took the bike to the corner where there is a slight hill and tested the bike.

He came back and told me this is NORMAL for a dy clutch!!!! They make a screech when let out sometimes and proceeded to show me old clutch discs and a flywheel, pushing the parts against each other with an explaination the friction causes the noise and that it is normal!

He said if he took my bike apart to check anything and Guzzi refused to cover the repairs I would have to pay for his labor!!!!!

He did say he heard the noise I have as he tested the bike on a hill, the service manager said he never heard it when he tested the bike. I almost got a lecture on how to let out a clutch from one of them but at that point I was less than kind to them. I made it perfectly clear that I will not pay a penny to have the service done and that it is a warranty issue and NOT NORMAL! I also warned them that this is the third time the bike has been in for this issue and that I expect it to be addressed. To counter my comments I was told that I was so fussy! fussy??? I was told the bike has a two year warranty and why would I want it taken apart?

I can see a big problem coming for Guzzi and me! I have no intention of letting this stand and I am fully aware that this condition is not normal and given I reported it at 600 miles and again later and this time again I will not tolerate it being ignored again or any longer.

I don't want to fight with this but I may have no choice and if I need to make people uncomfortable I will do that too.

I was asked to take my bike with me as a REP would need to be consulted but as I had another apointment with the person who was to give the a ride home I left the bike with the dealer. I was told to call back around five PM today to see if they had any answer or call back from the REP. I am in NEW JERSEY USA. I called but the service manager had no answer as HE didn't call the REP, the dealer may have. I was promised a call back today but this has not yet happened, it is 641PM and they close at 6pm as far as I know...

Obviously I am not happy. I didn't expect being treated like this, I'm far from stupid and less likely to accept a BS sandwitch from the pair.

I'm not aware that a dry clutch makes a screech when let out or when the bike is hot or when you ride two up or you have a slight load? I must check with all of the Ducati owners and ask! I'll need to check all of the magazine articles for mention of this unpleasant sound! Surely it has gone totally un noticed by so many guys and NOW I know that it MUST BE NORMAL???

If I don't hear something intelligent in response to my complaint I guess I'll begin writing letters... can't tell you guys how upsetting this is...

vivo
 
Ducati dry clutches and the clutch in your bike are of completely different designs so there is no point in even trying to make comparisons.

No the clutch shouldn't screech. When the clutch is engaged, (Lever pulled in.) you will experience a ringing noise, this will be worse if the idle speed is too low or the TB's are out of ballance but it is more a 'Chinky-chinky' ringing noise than a screech. THAT noise is caused by the friction and intermediate plates rattling on the splines of the input hub and in the flywheel and that IS normal. The clutch should be silent when disengaged, (Lever out.).

Can I suggest that you find someone with a long history of working with or owning Guzzis to have a listen and try and ascertain if the noise you are hearing is normal? If it is simply the flywheel ringing there is no point in worrying but a 'Screech' usually denotes a dry or damaged bearing.

pete
 
Hey Pete...

You are always an intelligent voice, you have my respect surely....

Yes, I know about the ringing noises dry clutches make. My bike makes that sound, personally not unpleasant to my ears and I've ridden dry clutched Ducati's too. This is not the noise I am complaining about at all. You speak about the noise heard when the lever is pulled in at a stop! There is a ringging, chinking sound. That's not what I mean!

What the bike does is screech when the clutch is released (only from a stop), sort of a fan belt type screech as in a car, a power steering pump etc. Nope it's not the chinking that IS normal with a dry clutch . I know of no real reason to check with Ducati guys, I was being a smart ass... I'm totally pissed off with the dealer. I am especially dissapointed in THIS dealer.

Pete, the noise is not a normal sound, I am 100% certain.

If I don't get a proper response from the dealer I will take the bike to Princton NJ and have them look at it. I did not buy the bike there but I am less than enchanted by todays lecture.

vivo
 
Pete, this is not what Vivo is talking about. All of us owning Grisos are familiar with the ringing noise coming from the clutch when the lever is in and the bike at a stop. The noise we're speaking of takes place when one releases the clutch lever slowly as one begins to roll from a stop.
 
Guys, I'm not saying there isn't a problem. But a lot of people new to Guzzis are a bit alarmed by the ringing of the flywheel, all I was trying to do was elliminate this as a possible cause.

You say it sounds like belt screech? Could it BE belt screech? If you are reving the engine when you let out the clutch the alternator belt *might* be slipping but you'd expect that it would slip if you just gave it a big fistfull at idle in neutral if this was the case.

Look, to me it sounds like there is a problem but I'm sure you understand that it is impossible for me to make any sort of diagnosis from half way round the world via computer!

Pete
 
How are you Pete? I remember how upset you sounded when you found out you need to purchase Navigator...

Listen, I appreciate you listening and I invite any comments cause I know your hearts in the right place and you're trying to help.

I'm 54, been riding since I was 16. I've taken apart cars when I was a kid, hot rodded a few, had a cool 34 Ford with independant suspension, PRE mustang 2 but I sized that same unit and slid it under my chassis before it became common or done with a kit. I've held a throw out bearing in my hand, seen the inside of a few engines so I'm not totally green.

The noise isn't from a dry clutch and it's as presented. It's impossible to know what it is...why would that be Pete? Had the dealer looked into my complaint the two prior times I made them we might
 
Well I agree. It sounds like you are being given the bum's rush but without actualy being able to SEE and HEAR the machine in question I can't hazard a guess at what the problem might be. I make suggestions for consideration, that's all. Sorry? I wasn't aware I was doing anything other than that. If my suggestions have been mis-interpreted I apologise.

Pete
 
As outlined in previous post above,now sure my problem(now sorted)is same as vivo's.Clutch release bearing siezed,pushrod then whizzes round causing great friction on slave cylinder and clutch.Each end of pushrod also sits in solid boss which will then welds to pushrod,which happened on my 8v griso.
Have seen the parts with my own eyes,looked liked they had an hour under an oxyacetylene flame.
The whole lot,slave to clutch plate had to be renewed.
My problem only exibited itself on v.hot engine,hot day,and my dealer had to take it on a long run to find symptoms.
But symptoms or not,vivo,the damage is there.The g/box had to be v.carefully separated from engine due to self welding.
If your dealer is shit,just keep going till you drop on a good one.I travelled 100 mile to buy my 8v of a good dealer,rather than making do with a shit one 10 mile away!
Good luck.
Will try and borrow camera,to take pics(parts at dealer).
 
PS. Don't let these little problems put you off your guzzi 8v,my machine is the best thing I've ever ridden.Black with GTrx r/s exhaust,tail tidy,carbon fibre bits etc.
Always has folk interested,bikers and non-bikers,and looks and sounds the dogs bollocks.
Just now waiting for Todds fuelling solution,and cloud 9.
 
Situation is a bit different in the 8V due to it having a completely different clutch. One of the things about the new design is it actually needs a correctly sized pushrod, there are a choice of, (I think?) four lengths. If it is too long you get the problem you describe.

Pete
 
Hi Pete...

Seems I need to take more care in what I say else it becomes edited. I won't let myself say too many emotional things next time. Maybe dry and to the point is better...

I have done a search for MG customer service but have had no luck as yet. I'm looking for the contact information for the head of that dept in the usa.

I've not received any call back again today from my dealer. This is twice that my request for a return call hasn't happened. They will not be open again till Tuesday and this is Saturday afternoon. I'm not looking to go around the dealer but I do want the info should I need it. Hopefully my bike will be taken apart and repaired and this will go away, obviously that's all I want. Guys buy bikes to ride and have fun not to be screwed over or get all ugly in an effort to have small things taken care of under the terms of the warranty we were given at the time we put our money in the hands of our dealers and took our pretty bike home.

vivo
 
John...

Thanks, I did make an e-mail request so we will need to see if they respond?

vivo
 
Hey Vivo
I know its a pita but have you tried any communication with the new Piaggio facility in California?
quoted from a google search off examiner.com :
Piaggio Group Americas, importer and distributor of Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, Piaggio and Vespa brands, announces the opening of its new national Technical Center in Costa Mesa, CA. The 12,000 square foot facility houses the company's product testing and technical training operations, including factory product training and classroom instruction for service technicians from all U.S. and Canadian dealerships, as well as Latin American importers.
unquote

You'd have to think these cats would be better prepared to talk actual problems than one of the customer service desk-jockys :unsure: (no offense to anyone out there in customer service ;) )

Hopefully, they're not the ones who trained your dealer :laugh:
 
Well, for now I am trying to find the name, phone numbers, e-mail and address someone can write to, the head of customer service. Apparently this is an interesting topic... It seems a secret! One would believe that when someone needs assistance one would naturally be given a customer service contact???

How is it no one has yet to find what our contact number is for Moto Guzzi Customer Service? How odd??? Are they joking?

I have sent a request by e-mail, if I get a response I will let you know... It was through the Italian site. I've not tried Piaggio yet, just got home.

It's an easy question. Who is in charge of Customer Service for Moto Guzzi? Does anyone know anything???

vivo
 
Well, yea, My bike is at the Fast by Ferracci as we speak. I left it to be serviced and since that is where I purchased the bike I assumed it would be acceptable for them to do the service? Gee... if I had another way to get the bike serviced I may try that?

When I took my bike to have the clutch work done I did assume it would be taken apart, especially since Mr Ferracci himself rode the bike and heard the noise. I'm not sure what I did wrong here? I had a problem. I have noted this on to two prior services. I took the bike back after information I received from this site made it obvious it is very possible that the Thrust bearing, Push rod, clutch disk and slave cylinder are being nasty to each other! So obviously I took the bike back to where I bought it, where they serviced it last and where I believed it would be taken care of and I did assume Mr Ferracci to be an excellent mechanic and engine tuner!!! I may have been mistaken but I'm still of the impression that Mr Ferracci is no dummy. I may be foolish in my assumption, I don't believe so but I may in fact be!

I was told they would call a rep. I was told I would be called back on two occasions by the service manager. Emmm, no, no calls, not good. They are closed today and they will open tommorow. I will call again tommorow.

I do want the contact info for the service dept directly. I believe as a customer I may be afforded that?

So, I'm not sure I answered you directly? If you are implying there are better local dealers then that's a different matter. I would assume this may be true? It would be better to go that way, find a great dealer to service the bike however, at this time I am displeased with the way I have to go about getting warranty claims and work done. My guess is the bike will get fixed but I should not have to be inconvienced with yet another trip and complaint in order to have my clutch looked at. I've been back three times so far. I am not happy with being told I would have to pay for the disassembly of the bike either, therefore I want to have my concerns addressed by Customer service directly if in fact I am refused service on the bike.

vivo
 
As has already been pointed out, Ferraci is not known for good customer service or are they known for being a top level Guzzi dealer. They are known for building fast Ducatis, and not much else. If you choose to keep barking up the same dead tree, then you are free to do so. It's a free country. But me personally, if a shop does not give me good service I take my business elsewhere. If Ferraci is giving you bad service and you keep going back, I'm pretty sure that is not Guzzis fault, in fact, I'm sure it is not completely Ferracis fault either.
There is NOTHING that requires you have the bike serviced by the dealer you bought it at. The only reason the bike is at Ferracis is because you chose to take it there.
One should take responsibility for ones own actions.
 
Why are you so concerned? I did take the bike to Ferracci and when I did I believed they were good. My bikes still there because when it was suggested that Ferracci may not be the best dealer and that Europa Machina might be a better place to have my bike looked after it was Saturday afternoon. The balls were in the air and since the shop is closed on Monday, this being Monday I haven't a reasonable alternative do I?

You are right about this not being Guzzi's fault. I'm not sure I am blaming Moto Guzzi? We obviously differ on our feelings with regard to owners responsibility. I believe my side stand should not fly off in traffic and you believe it's my fault if it does because I didn't locktite the bolt. To me this is a foolish thing to quibble about and I don't want to anymore. You know what my point is but you want me to fall in line and not ask questions or make trouble. I'm not sure anyone has that right to demand I agree with what another person says? I think you are most likely a nice guy who likes Guzzi's and I respect that, I even admire guys who are loyal to a thing, anything! I'm a lot like that too... but I'm also of the belief that when we let things go bad and we don't say what we know is the truth for fear of offending someone or for fear that no one will listen then we become helpless and instead of having a measure of control in our lives we take what we get and shut up.

I intend on going through the motions and allowing Ferracci a fair shot at fixing the bike. It's not fair at this point to blame anyone, me, Ferracci or Guzzi. Some of what I write isn't because I have been treated badly. Can I say something about the sidestand issue? There will be other people who purchase a Griso, people who don't access the internet for whatever reason or someone who doesn't happen to read about another guy's side stand bolt falling off. It's reasonable to expect I may be right about this... If it was possible to get a letter into the hands of someone at Piaggio to let them know that in the case of the much loved Griso, some owners have found the stand to be loose and the possibility exists for there to be an accident in the event that it should fall off while the guy is riding...would that be a good thing a thing worth doing? Then if you think this, YOU should write that letter.

I'll accept my responsibility to get the bike to a better dealer if Ferracci doesn't come through and do the work. He was pretty firm about wanting me to pay...that's not going to happen. I think he is very capable of doing the job and I hope it all works out.

You don't want me to contact Moto Guzzi customer Service? You don't want me to write a letter to Piaggio either? You don't want me to ask who the head of Customer service is? You don't want me to ask anything...yes, I know there are lots of very, very good problem free bikes out there. If I did not think this then I would NOT have bought a Moto Guzzi and I know they are basically a very sound bike and that they aren't quite up to the mass produced stuff coming out of Japan and I know that there is a charm about something simple, stuff you can adjust yourself, things that like to be fussed over... I understand all of that, I am in agreement that my Griso is a fine motorcycle and in truth I've not found anything similar that moves me in the same way as this bike.

I'm not certain who suggested the dealer Europa Machina? I've not forgotten... I'm not pissing for no good reason.

I've said my little thingy... I'll be happy to allow you the final word if you would like?

vivo
 
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