Everything you ever wanted to know about the 1200 8V engine tappet failure but were afraid to ask.

[scott_m]

What is missing from the "Everything you wanted to know" is..........

Since CARC will soon not be sold anymore by Dealers;

How much are (about --- within a couple of hundred Euro's, USD's, GBP's, Deutschmarks, AUD's, CAD's -- whatever, the internet can do the conversion) the A, B or C kits and about how many hours of (Dealer) standard shop time do they take to install?

Nothing exact just "about" .

Those of us looking for used CARC's would like to know. I figure a C kit with install is more than $3,000 if you foot the whole bill.

Thanks

Mark

Seriously?

That is "not missing", that is what a "dealer" is for. They have the ability to tell you prices. I have no idea. Some things you just have to find out for yourself brother.

 

[GTM®]

How much are (about --- within a couple of hundred Euro's, USD's, GBP's, Deutschmarks, AUD's, CAD's -- whatever, the internet can do the conversion) the A, B or C kits and about how many hours of (Dealer) standard shop time do they take to install?

Mark, the info is on the site regarding years to kit needed.
Cost is ~$1200 last I checked, and labor on the B kit is what John states above. The others are more intensive and require head removal, and I ALWAYS recommend flushing the motor and pulling the oil pump for a visual and flush.
I've done many of these at my shop in Orange; GTMotoCycles.com -- happy to be of help on all.

 

[Richard Martin]

Just to update you, The NZ agent and the repair shop can provide the parts and labour, almost $ 3000:00 NZD ! That represents about a third of the current value of this machine. I'm considering selling it off for parts. Anyone have any thoughts on that idea ? It was made quite clear that without a full service history conducted by a dealer workshop, no warranty. As I think most of us appreciate, dealer servicing would make no difference to a flawed manufacturing process.

 

[john zibell]

Just to update you, The NZ agent and the repair shop can provide the parts and labour, almost $ 3000:00 NZD ! That represents about a third of the current value of this machine. I'm considering selling it off for parts. Anyone have any thoughts on that idea ? It was made quite clear that without a full service history conducted by a dealer workshop, no warranty. As I think most of us appreciate, dealer servicing would make no difference to a flawed manufacturing process.

If you like the bike consider making the repair. It is hard to find a bike you like to keep. Selling parts you will end up with quite a bit that doesn't sell and end up at a scrapper at scrap metal price. Also it may take years to get the parts sold. Also if you sell the bike to a breaker, you won't get anywhere near the retail value of the bike. Personally I'd make the repair and ride the wheels off it.

 

[Richard Martin]

Yep John, Agreed after some thought. I dropped the sump last weekend and removed the oil pickups and flushed from the heads down. Nothing found other than a few slivers of alloy on the oil cooling pump intake which could date back to manufacture. Waiting for a new sump gasket, O ring for the pickup and filter and will send it for repair next week. I came to the same conclusions as yourself. Hoping that it was caught early enough to avoid damage beyond the cams and followers. After 31000Km the bores still have all the honing marks. The bottom end appears robust.

 

[aussiedave]

The flat tappets start failing fairly quickly, (as low as a few thousand km) and this can be seen in photographs. Dealing with the old importers (JSG) was fairly easy, but I think now there needs to be an education programme with the new ones, to start seeing a turnaround. Removing the flat tappets and inspecting them closely, photographing the evidence for warranty is the best place to start. MG should come to the party for parts, but usually you will have to spot for the labour.

Unfortunately, MG should have done a recall, globally, and rectified all these issues. Instead they have elected to turn a blind eye, and have the hide to charge you for the labour.

The really sad bit is, that importers around the world seem to accept this as "normal". Sad indeed.

Hi,
I was browsing and came back across this. Now May 2018
Tony is absolutely correct and owners in Australia should not have to pay anything when warranty applies to the product.
Visit the ACCC website - I recently refused an Australian AirCon manufacturer request I pay labour to have their faulty part replaced by them. ( had to be done by an "authorised technician") They backed down in the end , did not cost me to have the repair done - but leaves a bad taste eh.

Below are excerpts from the ACCC website - go there or contact them for more info re Consumer Guarantees
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund

Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:

• safe, lasting, with no faults
• look acceptable
• do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.

Repair, replacement or refund
You can ask a business for your preference of a free repair, replacement or refund, but you are not always entitled to one. For example, the consumer guarantees do not apply if you got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it.

See: Exceptions to consumer guarantees

If you have a minor problem with a product or service, the business can choose to give you a free repair instead of a replacement or refund. When you have a major problem with a product, you have the right to ask for your choice of a replacement or refund.


Cheers
Dave r

 

[Richard Martin]

Hi,
I was browsing and came back across this. Now May 2018
Tony is absolutely correct and owners in Australia should not have to pay anything when warranty applies to the product.
Visit the ACCC website - I recently refused an Australian AirCon manufacturer request I pay labour to have their faulty part replaced by them. ( had to be done by an "authorised technician") They backed down in the end , did not cost me to have the repair done - but leaves a bad taste eh.

Below are excerpts from the ACCC website - go there or contact them for more info re Consumer Guarantees
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund

Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:

• safe, lasting, with no faults
• look acceptable
• do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.

Repair, replacement or refund
You can ask a business for your preference of a free repair, replacement or refund, but you are not always entitled to one. For example, the consumer guarantees do not apply if you got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it.

See: Exceptions to consumer guarantees

If you have a minor problem with a product or service, the business can choose to give you a free repair instead of a replacement or refund. When you have a major problem with a product, you have the right to ask for your choice of a replacement or refund.


Cheers
Dave r

Hi Dave,

Pity I'm no longer in OZ. The Australian importers have no obligation to support this unit out of the country and the NZ importers also under obligation as it never went through them. However once the crook parts have been removed and the evidence is in on the cause, I will try them again.
Originally the first Stelvio I bought was misrepresented by the dealer and Tasmanian Law required that they buy it back which they did. Maybe I should have got the hint then but no, it would appear I'm a little slow about such decisions.

Cheers and thanks for the input.

 

[Bill Crane]

Glad to happen on this post, confirming that the tappet issue is not something I need to worry about after purchasing a used '13 Norge.
Very helpful information, think I'm going to like this forum.

 

[Adam Davis]

Hi Russell,

At this point in time, being 9 years since manufacturer, all you can do is have a current Moto Guzzi dealer submit a claim to Piaggio and see if they will honor the parts. I know that they will not pay for the labor this late in the game, and some here have said that they are now even refusing to pay for the parts as so many years have gone by. All you can do is try!

The important thing here is to remain calm, polite and grateful. They really don't have to give you anything at all as the warranty is long gone.

Good Luck!

That 1213 sport is badass for sure. Sharp bike.

 

[John Warner]

Excellent write-up Scott, thanks.
That's my Kit in the photo, with the Badge and Stickers.
Bought from Agostinis while on a Bike holiday in Sep 2016.
Fitted it with just over 28000 miles on the Clock, now approaching 33000.
My Flats were just starting to show signs of the DLC failing, so I did it just in time.


Are you OK with me sharing your write-up with the (520+ worldwide) members of my Owners Group on Facebook?

 

[Richard Martin]

Had the roller cam kit fitted to mine two days ago at 31000km. The exhaust looked like the one on the left of your photo and the inlet had not yet broken the surface but very close to it. This was followed by throttle body balancing and a remap. It is now one sweet running happy engine.

 

[scott_m]

Excellent write-up Scott, thanks.
That's my Kit in the photo, with the Badge and Stickers.
Bought from Agostinis while on a Bike holiday in Sep 2016.
Fitted it with just over 28000 miles on the Clock, now approaching 33000.
My Flats were just starting to show signs of the DLC failing, so I did it just in time.
View attachment 15859

Are you OK with me sharing your write-up with the (520+ worldwide) members of my Owners Group on Facebook?

Hi!

Sure. That's fine. Enjoy!

 

[Juan1]

For engines like yours, Moto Guzzi has created different "kits" based upon which Engine Designation you have. I provide this table to you as an overview and visual, however, your dealer should check the VIN in the Piaggio database which will give the correct kit...

Just a heads up, I have an early 2011 Griso with a drill mark on each cylinder, and lacking a groove in the center of the rocker box covers. That would make my Griso kit B compatible, wouldn't it?

 

[scott_m]

Just a heads up, I have an early 2011 Griso with a drill mark on each cylinder, and lacking a groove in the center of the rocker box covers. That would make my Griso kit B compatible, wouldn't it?

"For engines like yours, Moto Guzzi has created different "kits" based upon which Engine Designation you have. I provide this table to you as an overview and visual, however, your dealer should check the VIN in the Piaggio database which will give the correct kit:"

 

[Adam Davis]

Hi Trevor,

Like everything else in Australia, I have no flipping idea mate! The information I have is for North America:

According to Piaggio, motorcycles produced after these specific Serial Numbers / Production Dates, have the implemented design change valve train, and are "roller" engines.

Model - Engine Designation - Last 5 Digits of Serial Number - Date of Production

Stelvio - AC - After AC12596 - 03/12/2012
Griso - A8 - After 13524 - 04/12/2012
Norge - AA - After 12214 - 04/18/2012​

I think it would be safe to assume that your bike, being a 2013, has been factory rollerized, but you can verify for sure by looking under the valve cover. I posted pictures in the original posting of what it should look like.

I sure wish they had sold that model here in 2013 because I would have bought one in a second flat!

Beautiful bike if you ask me.

Doesn't get much closer than this Griso.... which happens to be mine.

 

[Adam Davis]

Doesn't get much closer than this Griso.... which happens to be mine.

That 9 looks almost like a five....until I enhanced image.

 

[beezer660]

Just curious as to what the maximum mileage anyone has experienced on the flat cam motors without having the update? All the dealers within any reasonable distance have gone out of business or dropped Moto Guzzi mainly because according to them, Guzzi has refused to reimburse them for all the warranty work. My bike is a 2009 with 37,000 miles and I have not had any symptoms yet. Anyone gone much further without problems?

 

[Rusty2000]

Just curious as to what the maximum mileage anyone has experienced on the flat cam motors without having the update? All the dealers within any reasonable distance have gone out of business or dropped Moto Guzzi mainly because according to them, Guzzi has refused to reimburse them for all the warranty work. My bike is a 2009 with 37,000 miles and I have not had any symptoms yet. Anyone gone much further without problems?

Mine in an 09 with 46k miles on it. Oil changed every year regardless of mileage and no apparent problems, yet! Last time did tappets in September '18, they were in tolerance and the engine sounds just as noisy as when I bought it 5 years ago!

 

[MatadorMkV]

Hey guys,
Was wondering if you could help me out. I'm looking to buy a used, low mileage 2013 Stelvio. The last 5 digits of the VIN are 12514. The information posted below was copied from the OP. I just assumed that the bike I'm looking at would have the roller tappets, but according to the information below, it's before 12596?...or was the OP referring to the serial number on the engine?

Stelvio - AC - After AC12596 - 03/12/2012

 

[Raven]

With a 2013 you should have roller tappets. There are some discrepancies but after serial number 12496 and build date of 03/12/2012 it should be fine.