mrcanns
Cruisin' Guzzisti
As you said ride it enjoy it, if it goes wrong fix it cheers
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guess that noise....
- Thread starterChadlebowski
- Start date
That makes sense.
I'm not overly worried, but it seems to me that there's a 'fine line' so to speak, between the Engines that have Tappet/Cam issues, and those that do not.
If I can do something simple like keeping the Oil temp up in Winter to prevent it, then obviously I want to know that as soon as possible.
I'm wondering if a small K&N type (oiled) filter on the Breather outlet might reduce the amount of moisture getting into the Engine.
mrcanns
Cruisin' Guzzisti
The breather draws from the filtered side of the air box and I run a k and n type filter on mine, the filters worth fitting as a performance upgrade but won't stop this happening if you look at the breather there is an oil separator up by the steering head and this mayo doesn't appear in that as it out out the direct cold air flow
It is hard to "filter out" humidity. A K & N filter is not going to do that.
Due to the layout of the motor, the whole 90 degree v twin thing, as the pistons go up and down the volume under the pistons also goes up and down. That requires air to go in and out of the crankcase to both fill that area and get out of the way. The breather has a constant in and out breathing as the engine is running. If there is humidity in that air it will get in to the crankcase. It is perfectly normal. It only becomes an issue when your oil does not get hot enough during operation to boil off that moisture.
If I had an 8 valve Guzzi, flat tappet or roller, I would at the very least add an oil temp gauge and take steps to make sure my oil temp gets hot enough to boil off that moisture regularly. If that requires a thermostat or blocking off the oil cooler, that is what it takes. The 8 valve Guzzi's seem to have an issue with lack of temp in cooler / wetter conditions. That mayo inside the valve covers is, in my opinion, a bad thing and I would not ignore it.
Due to the layout of the motor, the whole 90 degree v twin thing, as the pistons go up and down the volume under the pistons also goes up and down. That requires air to go in and out of the crankcase to both fill that area and get out of the way. The breather has a constant in and out breathing as the engine is running. If there is humidity in that air it will get in to the crankcase. It is perfectly normal. It only becomes an issue when your oil does not get hot enough during operation to boil off that moisture.
If I had an 8 valve Guzzi, flat tappet or roller, I would at the very least add an oil temp gauge and take steps to make sure my oil temp gets hot enough to boil off that moisture regularly. If that requires a thermostat or blocking off the oil cooler, that is what it takes. The 8 valve Guzzi's seem to have an issue with lack of temp in cooler / wetter conditions. That mayo inside the valve covers is, in my opinion, a bad thing and I would not ignore it.
mrcanns
Cruisin' Guzzisti
The crankcase volume stays fairly constant as one rises the other falls the breather is mainly to cope with combustion blow by the rings condensation forms where there is a difference in temp and there is moisture present given in the UK there is nearly always moisture present increasing oil temp could make condensation worse better to remove the cold spots?
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
The moisture in the motor is created by the combustion blowby. It has nothing to do with the outdoor humidity.
Just as you see water dripping out of a tailpipe on a car in cold weather, when the humidity is actually lowest. Combustion gases + cold = water (and other crap)
The combustion gases simply are condensing on the cold motor parts. The valve cover is the easiest part to see, and sticking out in the air like that, likely the coldest part.
On my EV, I install plexiglass shields in front of the cylinders, and my legs, in the winter. That helped reduce the moisture in the valve covers on it. I'm not sure what the best bet is for the Stelvio. I still like the idea of a radiator cover.
Just as you see water dripping out of a tailpipe on a car in cold weather, when the humidity is actually lowest. Combustion gases + cold = water (and other crap)
The combustion gases simply are condensing on the cold motor parts. The valve cover is the easiest part to see, and sticking out in the air like that, likely the coldest part.
On my EV, I install plexiglass shields in front of the cylinders, and my legs, in the winter. That helped reduce the moisture in the valve covers on it. I'm not sure what the best bet is for the Stelvio. I still like the idea of a radiator cover.
Not entirely true. You will get moisture from the sounding air also. As the bike sits to cool, surrounding air still fills the crank case and water will condense out as the air cools down and hits the dew point. Summer time you will not see it as seldom the temp is cold enough to hit the dew point so water condenses out of air. Of course we are talking UK so not sure how much morning fog plays an issue as that is basically water saturated air. Theoretically if you stored the bike in a heated garage that is above the dewpoint of water in air you should never have a water issue (or dramatically reduced) from the surrounding air.
Most if not all of the moisture from the air intake during riding will come out the exhaust other than some that blows by and into the oil. No idea how much that would be but quick rides and the bike cycling hot cold all the time will put a lot of water over time into the oil from condensation in the crank and blow by(I suspect more from condensation in the crank but not really sure)
What that all means is you can't prevent it from happening no matter what you do, but unless you take some long rides and get that bike good and hot, the water will just keep adding up to the point it starts to form mayo on the cold parts. In this case it is the valve covers. It is not the mayo that will necessarily cause you the issue, it is the fact that it is forming because you have enough water in the oil to do it. How much is too much...no idea but if you are going to ride in those conditions continuously I would recommend just changing the oil twice as much and try to take at least one long ride a week to keep the water at bay.
Only one long ride? 
Not that I really need an excuse to stay out riding as long as possible!
My thought on the Breather Filter GM, was that if it was in a cool area, maybe a portion of any air-borne moisture would condense out on the Filter Element, just a thought as I say.
I don't see it making matters worse, certainly.
I had the Valve Covers off Sunday evening.
Light coating of mayo on the front wall of the left one, slightly more on the right one.
I didn't look too closely at the Covers when I first took them off just after getting the Bike (removed purely out of curiosity), but they have a 'false' side at the front, so are more insulated from the Airflow than a simple 'single-skinned' Cover.
I've filled the voids with foam for now, I'll see if that makes any difference.
Once I hook-up the Gauge I can experiment a bit more with it.
On a side note;
Anyone know the purpose of the Tab Washer fitted under the rear-inner Nut of the Rocker Block?
They were digging into the valve covers on mine (where the red Ring is in the first pic), so I've bent them down a little to clear.
Not that I really need an excuse to stay out riding as long as possible!
My thought on the Breather Filter GM, was that if it was in a cool area, maybe a portion of any air-borne moisture would condense out on the Filter Element, just a thought as I say.
I don't see it making matters worse, certainly.
I had the Valve Covers off Sunday evening.
Light coating of mayo on the front wall of the left one, slightly more on the right one.
I didn't look too closely at the Covers when I first took them off just after getting the Bike (removed purely out of curiosity), but they have a 'false' side at the front, so are more insulated from the Airflow than a simple 'single-skinned' Cover.
I've filled the voids with foam for now, I'll see if that makes any difference.
Once I hook-up the Gauge I can experiment a bit more with it.
On a side note;
Anyone know the purpose of the Tab Washer fitted under the rear-inner Nut of the Rocker Block?
They were digging into the valve covers on mine (where the red Ring is in the first pic), so I've bent them down a little to clear.
The tabs on these types of washers are usually bent to the nut to prevent it from turning, but if the washer isn't locked/notched to the stud, it really wouldn't do much.
mrcanns
Cruisin' Guzzisti
I think these tabs are to ground the valve covers my 11 had something similar poss to do with radio suppression
It's not a locking Tab JZ, and it's only on the one Nut (of four) on each side.
I can't see it being for suppression either . . . puzzling.
I can't see it being for suppression either . . . puzzling.
MotoG5
Tuned and Synch'ed
It is for grounding the valve cover. I have seen it referenced as an Earthing Tab. When the roller conversion is done on older bikes it is replaced by newer design that is made so as not to damage the valve cover. The new one fits under the cam shafts retaining cover bolts.
So, what Electrical/Ignition connections are there to the Valve Covers then? 
They're not shown or mentioned in the copy of the Manual I have.
They're not shown or mentioned in the copy of the Manual I have.
You would think the valve cover screws would provide sufficient ground. Sounds like overkill.
If they are there to ground the valve cover, and that does make sense to me but I don't know, it would likely be to prevent the valve cover from becoming electrified with no where for it to go. I think the cover is isolated from the rest of the engine. That could result in you getting shocked if you touch the cover. I think it is much like the cabinets I work with where the door has a ground strap going to it from the can the door is connected to. The hinges do not allow for sufficient grounding and if the door gets electrified you want to give the electricity a path to ground. I could see if the valve cover got electrified you would want to give that electricity a path to ground.
I am pretty sure the attachment points are all rubber mounted, are they not?
But I could be wrong.
I am pretty sure the attachment points are all rubber mounted, are they not?
But I could be wrong.
mrcanns
Cruisin' Guzzisti
The valve covers should not make any physical connection (IE are rubber mounted) to the head as a sound attenuation measure but are earthed to screen poss HT interference that's my understanding of it
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
So, what Electrical/Ignition connections are there to the Valve Covers then?
Yes, the valve cover is totally electrically floating by all of the rubber washers and gaskets. With the multi-kilovolt spark plug wire passing near it, it is an ESD nightmare for the computer controls. A simple ground tab can make a big difference.
As mentioned, On the new designs there is a ground tab mounted under the two center rocker screws that does the job.
As Wayne pointed out, the Cover is insulated from the rest of the Engine by the main Rubber Gasket, and the Rubber Washers under the mounting screws.
If it does need to be earthed, I'll have to rethink it.
Ordered these yesterday . . .
http://www.justaircooled.co.uk/rocker-cover-breather-vents-for-oil-breathers-pair-with-fittings.html
Also finished mounting and Wiring-in my Oil Temp Gauge . . .
Will see what it shows on the run into Work tomorrow Evening.
http://www.justaircooled.co.uk/rocker-cover-breather-vents-for-oil-breathers-pair-with-fittings.html
Also finished mounting and Wiring-in my Oil Temp Gauge . . .
Will see what it shows on the run into Work tomorrow Evening.
25min ride into work tonight.
Ambient temp of 11-12°C
Mostly Motorway, 75-80mph, Oil Temp reached 91°C after approx 10mins, and sat there most of the time.
Peaked at 94° sat at lights after a bit of 'spirited' use, then quickly dropped off again once moving.
Will blank off the Cooler fully next, see if that alters it.
Ambient temp of 11-12°C
Mostly Motorway, 75-80mph, Oil Temp reached 91°C after approx 10mins, and sat there most of the time.
Peaked at 94° sat at lights after a bit of 'spirited' use, then quickly dropped off again once moving.
Will blank off the Cooler fully next, see if that alters it.