How To Recover The 5 Digit Security Code

[Ken Wantje]

So I purchased my 2016 Audace from the widow of a poor chap who has passed on to the by & by and I don't have the 5 Digit security code that would have been entered at the initial start up. From what I have read this is required should the bike's immobilizer be activated or if the ignition switch ever needed to be replaced. Is is possible for the dealer to reset this code?

 

[scott_m]

No. Very well documented. Use advanced SEARCH function

Also covered in the owners manual.

Common codes are 00000, 01234, 43210, 12345, 54321, the last 5 numeric of the VIN, the Service Menu code (34534). Try these. Also, if you were given the manuals and paper records, it may be recorded ion a receipt or in the books. Worth searching for.

 

[kiwi dave]

These might be the default codes (eg 34534 for the Cali 1400), but any prudent owner can change this so any on-line search will not reveal their personal code.

 

[Moto-Uno]

Is that not the same code used for getting rid of the service wrench ? Peter

 

[scott_m]

Yes. It’s a list of common numbers people have used on other bikes before for the user code.

 

[roadventure]

So I purchased my 2016 Audace from the widow of a poor chap who has passed on to the by & by and I don't have the 5 Digit security code that would have been entered at the initial start up. From what I have read this is required should the bike's immobilizer be activated or if the ignition switch ever needed to be replaced. Is is possible for the dealer to reset this code?

Unfortunately, regardless of what anyone tells you, the simple answer is "no". As you have seen you have been offered some guesses to try and one of them MAY work. But the reality is that unless the previous owner wrote it down or told you what he used you are stuck. Dealers do not have a "universal" code and do not know how to reset it (at least all of them that I have dealt with) and Moto Guzzi also does not know and can't help.

The only people I have found who seem to be able to get into the computer in your dash are Carmo Electronics in the Netherlands.

 

[scott_m]

I am sending Carmo in Holland the dash from my recently purchased Norge 1200GT because of this exact issue. I have 2 keys, only one is registered to the dash, and no code. Stuck in Moto Guzzi immobilizer hell.

It's going to cost me about 380 Euros with shipping there and back. (~$450) Not cheap, but way cheaper than replacing the dash and ignition and lock sets. I figure, that Carmo also reseals the dash after they crack it open and they guarantee their work for a year, so it's all good.

BTW: It's the same price for a 1400 engine Moto Guzzi as it is for the Norge 1200 GT, or a Stelvio, V7, V9, or V85.

 

[kiwi dave]

Have you considered cloning your existing key? I never done it and don't know the pitfalls, but it's gotta be a helluva lot cheaper.

Talk to a knowledgeable locksmith.

 

[Raven]

Have you considered cloning your existing key? I never done it and don't know the pitfalls, but it's gotta be a helluva lot cheaper.

Talk to a knowledgeable locksmith.

I had a key cloned for my Norge. It works to start the bike but I still cannot use the 2 keys I now have to retrieve and change the user code.
This user code crap with Moto Guzzi is the stupidest attempt at anti-theft I have ever seen. Not only can a thief not start your bike but neither can you if you don't have the code when trouble occurs with the immobilizer.
I could understand if a dealer was able to fix the problem but having to ship your dash to The Netherlands to the only place in the world that can fix it is ridiculous.

 

[scott_m]

Have you considered cloning your existing key? I never done it and don't know the pitfalls, but it's gotta be a helluva lot cheaper.

Talk to a knowledgeable locksmith.

This is the whole crux of the problem in a nutshell!

A “ cloned” key has exactly the same transponder code (electronic “fingerprint”) as the key it is made from. The electronics in the motorcycle dash, cannot distinguish one from another. If you have 4 cloned keys for example, they look identical to the dash and as far as the dash is concerned, you have only 1 key because they are all electronically identical.

To RECOVER a user code in the dash, requires 2 DIFFERENT but registered keys to the dashboard. (The dash is capable of learning up to 4 different transponder coded keys).

To PROGRAM an additional key (up to 4 different ones again), requires 1 good key registered to the dash, and the User Code.

So in my case of 1 good key registered to the dash, and no user code, I am in LIMBO HELL with insufficient pieces to either RECOVER the User Code, or to PROGRAM a different key.

This is the whole problem in a nutshell.

In Moto Guzzi’s defense as Devil’s Advocate, they go to great lengths in the documentation and on the dash itself when you go to change the User Code, you are admonished very strongly to WRITE DOWN THE CODE IN A SAFE LOCATION.

Dealerships and owners don’t listen to that warning, and this is the result.

I’m just thrilled Carmo knows exactly how to repair it. Grateful really.

They are entitled to their money because they reverse engineered the User Code storage process.

They surgically open up a dash that was never designed to be opened after it was made, then they bootstrap a particular chip on the motherboard and literally read out the contents of the NVRAM location where the User Code is stored. Then after retrieving the code, they professionally reseal the dash against water intrusion and guarantee the whole repair for 1 year!

They are smart people and what they provide has VALUE.

 

[kiwi dave]

A “ cloned” key has exactly the same transponder code (electronic “fingerprint”) as the key it is made from. The electronics in the motorcycle dash, cannot distinguish one from another. If you have 4 cloned keys for example, they look identical to the dash and as far as the dash is concerned, you have only 1 key because they are all electronically identical.

Hello Scott

I've always run two keys, and I store the spare in a safe place.

But can you please explain what the pitfall is using cloned keys? It wouldn't be the first time that I had to locate my backup key from a locked key safe because I had temporarily hidden the operating key from myself.

Sure, having 2 or more registered keys is the ideal, but if you only have one as in the original post above, it's a huge financial and time consuming step to send off your dash to Carmo or other repairer.

I know what I would do if I found myself in a similar situation.

 

[roadventure]

Have you considered cloning your existing key? I never done it and don't know the pitfalls, but it's gotta be a helluva lot cheaper.

Talk to a knowledgeable locksmith.

Nope. Making a clone of a key that has a communication problem (i.e.: unknown security code) will only result in another key that does not work with the unknown security code.

 

[roadventure]

having to ship your dash to The Netherlands to the only place in the world that can fix it is ridiculous.

Agreed. Moto Guzzi sources the dash on the 1400 from a vendor who manufactures it for them. I do not know who that may be, but this is a very common thing for vehicle manufacturers to do. The problem, as I see it, is that they seem to have not purchased the source code for the dash software, only the completed dash it self. As a result, MG is helpless to solve any software issues like a lost or forgotten security code.

 

[roadventure]

I know what I would do if I found myself in a similar situation.

What would you do?

 

[kiwi dave]

What would you do?

I would go the cheapo way. If the bike starts and keeps going, then the only problem is an error code on the dashboard is it not?

But I'm not in that position, all my keys are married to their respective dash.

A little while ago, I lost my car key ((Holden VF2-SS Black (even although it's red!) Also known as a Chevrolet SS Sedan in the USA). It was going to cost me NZ$1300, and I nearly paid it until I finally found the lost one.

I wasn't comfortable not having the spare, the cost to repair with no key is horrendous and you're going nowhere!

 

[scott_m]

Guys, it’s not Moto Guzzi’s fault and it has absolutely nothing to do with them not purchasing software or rights or any of that BS.

It has to do with precisely the same crap that pops up here all the time.

Any idiot who fancies themselves a qualified ECU modifier and programmer, gets software off the internet which allows them to do stuff they have no idea what they are doing and allows them to really FU their motorcycle. When it happens, they come crying here to help them please! Why do they do this? BECAUSE THEY CAN! (My Nonna once told me that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should!)

Moto Guzzi provides a theft deterrent system (immobilizer) that cannot be defeated by any known piece of software, including an unscrupulous dealer or a person who “acquired” or cloned a dealer computer PADS or NAVIGATOR. You know this would happen in 2 seconds flat if it were possible! Absolutely without question.

So they designed it to be unable to be cracked in the field.

However, Carmo is very smart and they know how to open the dash and connect directly to the nonvolatile memory chip that stores the code, and read it directly.

Sure, you can unplug the dash and get the bike to start but nothing works without the dash connected. No turn signals, no brake lights, no instruments, and as far as selling a stolen motorcycle with a locked dash, forget it. It has little value.

THE PITFALL IS: You can have 100 cloned keys but if that key for whatever reason, gets deleted or corrupted in the immobilizer, then you have 100 identical dead keys and are completely SOL!

To protect you, Moto Guzzi admonishes you SEVERAL TIMES, IN SEVERAL PLACES, to WRITE DOWN AND RECORD THE CODE!

They also instruct you to program AT LEAST 2 different keys to the dash immobilizer and even provide the motorcycle owner the ability to program 4 DIFFERENT KEYS right from the motorcycle itself!

With 2 different keys, you can FORCE A RESET OF THE USER CODE right on the dash on the motorcycle.

Come on, stop bashing Moto Guzzi and put the blame exactly where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of stupid, lazy, owners who are too busy or fancy themselves too intelligent to READ THE OWNERS MANUAL which explains it in detail, and who also fail to insist upon a proper PDI setup from their dealer so long as they bought the bike cheaper from Dealer X and screwed out their local dealer of some well deserved profit. Lastly, they don't take it upon themselves to ensure that this does not happen to themselves ever!

This is why this happens time and again.

Every used Moto Guzzi I have bought came with an Original Owners Manual, that clearly had never had a page turned open in it ever. This is the truth! (My GIANT pet peeve here is people who ask stupid questions that are covered in detail in the manuals, both owners and service, because they are simply TOO DAMN LAZY to read for themselves and instead want to be spoon-fed everything. Sometimes I think they want us to "peel grapes for them" and feed them to them while they recline on a sofa.)

So, if you haven’t done so, WRITE YOUR USER CODE DOWN SOMEPLACE. Program 3 or I strongly recommend 4 different transponder keys to the immobilizer, and sit back and smile knowing that you will never have this issue.

UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OF YOU WITH MODERN MOTO GUZZI MOTORCYCLES WITH THIS IMMOBILIZER SYSTEM WILL JUST BLOW THIS OFF.

I already have the 3 extra blank keys to program and cut the very second I get my dash back from Carmo (giving me a complete set of 4 different transponder keys).

KUDOS TO CARMO. They have been amazingly professional by the way.

 

[Moto-Uno]

And how do you really feel about this ? . Peter

 

[scott_m]

And how do you really feel about this ? . Peter

Yes, I know Peter, but it really chaps my hide with the bashing of Moto Guzzi, Carmo, everybody but the real guilty party.

Taking responsibility for one’s actions (or inaction) these days just seems to be a rare thing anymore.

 

[Raven]

It seems to be rare that the fault or blame can fall on the current owner. Such is the case with your Norge Scott as well as mine.
I bought mine from a used bike dealer with one key. The shop deals mainly in Harleys and was completely unaware of the 2 key user code dilemma. The former owner could not be found and did not use any one of the hundred or so "generic " number combinations that I tried.
What I find problematic is that there is no way to recover the code other than sending the dash to Carmo. It's risky, expensive, a waste of valuable riding time and a waste of resources.

Just curious, do the newest Guzzis use the same user code system?

 

[scott_m]

What I find problematic is that there is no way to recover the code other than sending the dash to Carmo.

Because if there was a way, thieves would have access to it in 2 seconds flat!

28 years ago, I owned a pharmacy. We had Medco locks on the pharmacy lab doors. You received 4 very special keys and were warned extensively about securing them because no copies were made or kept and you could never buy a new “blank” anywhere because they were laser cut on all sides.

They weren’t kidding. If you lost all the keys, the locks had to be drilled out with cobalt steel bits, thrown away and replaced.

Same exact reason. Criminals would gain access to the “override” in 2 seconds flat.

I disagree about it being “risky”. Carmo has for €40, arranged pickup at my shop by DHL with direct express delivery and full insurance and tracking to Holland. Repair is less than 3 days with return express shipment via DHL the same way back to me. Also, the entire process is highly automated and structured by Carmo via their website with an outstanding order system which contains active tracking and detailed copies of all communication between us. They get 5 stars for this setup from me!

To me, this is far less risk that operating with one good key only.

YMMV