Ridemalibu Motorcycle Rentals & Tours – Los Angeles CA
  1. Holiday Greetings. For those asking about Black Friday/Cyber Monday specials... Since we're such a tiny operation, it's tough to offer much... But we're again offering free shipping on $99+ orders to our U.S. customers on any in stock GTM product! Now through Monday at midnight, PST. Use POST-COVID-FREE discount code at checkout on our online Store link above - We truly appreciate your support. PLEASE Support small businesses!

Modern "No Start" issue solution

Discussion in 'Chat & Tech Info' started by GTM®, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,896
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    B'more, Md
    That should depend on where the capacitor is. If it is after the ignition switch then it should take some of the load off the switch, the capacitor could store voltage after the switch and feed it back in when the demand is there, reducing the amount of inrush that the switch needs to carry.
     
  2. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Addlestone, Surrey, UK
    The other cause of the no start situation where you hear a clunk from the solenoid, but the starter motor doesn't engage, is to clean out the solenoid, for some reason the manufacturer puts grease in there, this dries out and becomes sticky. Clean it off and ideally reassemble dry, but I actually used a smear of light oil.
    The hot no start situation I have heard of before, and it is to do with the engine becoming too hot, hence the ECU fault code. Once cooled off, the engine will start again. Happened to a friend on a trip in Germany, on a hot day, delayed in traffic.

    Remember the current which activates the solenoid is best part of 20 Amps, and in the original setup this has to pass through the ignition switch, the contacts of which are almost certainly not designed to take such a current.
     
  3. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,187
    Likes Received:
    409
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    And the capacitor would continue to supply current after the ignition switch is turned off. Thus it will be discharged when the ignition switch is turned on again, resulting in a large rush of initial current.

    But there was a diode involved too. I can't imagine where this would be added, but if anybody can explain I'm all ears.
     
  4. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Addlestone, Surrey, UK
    But in an ideal world there is no need for the solenoid current to go through the ignition switch contacts.
     
  5. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Addlestone, Surrey, UK
    That makes sense.
     
  6. Michael White

    Michael White Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Redditch UK
    I have read other threads in these forums on Griso 8V models blowing the 15 amp fuse on starting. My problem was occasional then jumped to 12 in 3 weeks. The best solution is the one that seems to address the problem. Loosen the solenoid and spray some WD40 or 3in1 in to lubricate the spindle. This is simple and works 100%. There is nothing wrong with the wiring otherwise they would blow fuses from day one. Simple job too; 2x 5mm hex bolts for the cover. 2x 13mm bolts for the starter then 3x 25Torx screws to loosen the solenoid.
     
  7. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    592
    Location:
    Above Pott's Camp along Braddock's route, Virginia
    OK, will put on my forum ATGATT immediately after posting this and hunker down for the flames. :giggle:

    Now, with that defensive preamble out of the way, given what I believe are the other items on that circuit, where's the harm in just up-gunning the fuse to a 25A or even more?

    Some hypothetical people I know very well have done just that. :lipssealed:

    Bill
     
  8. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Addlestone, Surrey, UK
    You do need to lubricate the pivot though.

    There are actually two problems, one blows fuses when the solenoid doesn't engage properly, leaving the high current coil still in circuit, thus blowing the fuse, and the other is when the solenoid doesn't actually move and all you hear is the click from the relay. This requires the wiring mod, and will probably happen at some time to most models.

    The solenoid on my Norge was covered in sticky grease from new, which had to be cleaned out. There is also a Service Release showing how to clean the Bendix part of the main shaft which can also stop the solenoid from moving.

    Also a poor connection anywhere I that circuit will cause low volts at the solenoid spade terminal which will also cause the fuse to blow.

    Things are never that simple.
     
  9. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Addlestone, Surrey, UK
    Actually Oz, your description is not quite right. there are two coils in the solenoid, a heavy high current one which is used to pull in the plunger and move the pinion, and another smaller one which holds it all in place while the starter motor runs. The first heavy coil is earthed through the starter, so is shorted out when the contact is made. That coil takes about 25A, but should only operate for less than a second so won't normally blow the fuse. If the plunger doesn't go full travel (for whatever reason) then the high current remains and the fuse blows.
    The way to avoid the fuse blowing is to immediately flick the start button out to the kill position when you just hear that clunk.
     
  10. taz

    taz Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    SW VA
    I continue to have the problem on my 07 Norge. Multiple pushes of the start button result in a click but no starter engagement, occasionally it would blow the 15amp fuse. I recently added the MPH solution and the fuse blew instantly. I went with a 20 amp fuse on the MPH wiring harness and it blew. I removed the MPH wiring harness and went back to the original wiring. I continue to have the issue, but it will typically start within 4 clicks without blowing the standard 15amp fuse. I am tempted to use a 25amp fuse in the MPH harness.
     
  11. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    12,376
    Likes Received:
    4,590
    Location:
    Malibu
    Some of those that they did were wired wrong. Reach back out to Mike. Sure he'll rectify the issue.
     
    john zibell likes this.
  12. taz

    taz Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    SW VA
    Thanks, I will
     
  13. taz

    taz Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    SW VA
    It ended up being the starter motor. Replaced it, all is well.
     
    motoman likes this.
  14. Sanchin10

    Sanchin10 Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    "07 Breva-11 Where to re solder Green wire inside Starter button? Cannot trace o wiring diagram...help please!
     
  15. Sanchin10

    Sanchin10 Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Massachusetts
     
  16. Sanchin10

    Sanchin10 Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    '07 Breva-11 Green wire inside starter button needs to be re-soldered but cannot locate where to re-connect in the wiring diagram. thank ya'll for any/all help!
     
  17. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,187
    Likes Received:
    409
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Starter button is shown in Carl's diagram as the bottom part of item 5.

    Wires appear to be yellow with a red strip and blue (ground). Dunno where the green wire fits in. Perhaps the blue wire has faded to a dull green?
     
    Sanchin10 likes this.
  18. Michael Goodwin

    Michael Goodwin Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New York
    Would like to add my kudos and thanks to all who had a hand in trouble-shooting and addressing this most annoying problem. Having experienced the issue while over 1000 miles from home I can attest it is enough to make you want to buy another brand.

    I was able to apply the basic fix to my '05 Nevada 750 and so far - all is good. Thanks again for all your work.

    Mike on Long Island
     
  19. Jack MacBride

    Jack MacBride Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2020
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    colorado
    yeah. I had this same issue. I have a 73 eldo. the starter was having all kinds of issues. sometimes it would turn the motor over, other times it would just go click, then it would do nothing at all. I tried everything that I read on here. I bought a new starter and installed it and it worked only once. then click, then nothing. I pulled the starter back off and tested it and worked fine all alone on the bench. I put it back in and tried again only to get a click. for a moment I thought the engine had seized I took the front cover off, the generator belt one, and was able to turn the crank with a wrench. tried the starter again and it turned over but very sluggish. then it did the click and then nothing at all. I put the bike into gear and rocked it back and forth then tried again and then it worked. but only once. I came to the conclusion that the starter gear must be getting stuck. I removed the starter and it tested good on the bench. I took a close look at the flywheel and could see large burrs on the teeth. I could feel them with my finger the burrs where on all of the teeth. I carefully ground off all of the burrs with a dremel. it was tedious to say the least. I turned the crank about 5 degrees each time and inspected all the teeth and gently ground the burrs off. some of them were pretty bad. they were on the front of the flywheel and on top of each tooth.
    afterwards, I put the starter back in and it has worked flawlessly ever since.

    flywheel.gif
     
  20. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    8,460
    Likes Received:
    1,099
    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    When you need a clutch job just replace that ring gear.
     

Share This Page