Stornello or V7 Racer?

[usedtobefast]

Looking to buy my first Moto Guzzi!

This started when I saw a craigslist add for a Stornello. Wow, beautiful bike, never knew they existed!

So tons of googling, reading, youtubing, etc.

But the improvements with the V7 III just sound great. 10% more power, better fueling, better rear shocks, the extra oiling improvements with the engine, sounded like some gearbox and clutch improvements. But no III Stornello.

So of the V7 III bikes I like the Racer the best. Ohlins rear shocks! yes! Something about the red frame I guess. Don't like the matte finish on the Stones. The blue Special is nice. But the Racer just excites me the most.

But I still like the Stornello the best (looks/concept wise). I doubt I would ever take it offroad, the bike just seems too beautiful to get dirty!

So cafe racer style or scrambler style? If there was a III Stornello, I think that would be it. I like how the high pipe makes it look. Left side with no pipe looks super clean and simple. Or the right side you can see more of the lower red frame and rear swing arm.

So lucky me ... a dealer ~2 hours away has a Stornello I can test ride! And a V7 III Stone available for test ride (can check out the III engine). They also have a V7 III Racer (not prepped for a test ride, but Sales guy said if I'm serious about buying one and need a ride to make sure, they'd prep it for me to ride).

So Saturday I will either have a decision or be more confused than ever!

Any thoughts on my dilemma?

 

[GTM®]

Welcome to the GT fold.

Ride them both. Both are good. The III is noticably better in the motor dept, but much the same in all others, and I am not a huge fan of the slightly longer wheelbase/rake and bulkier triple trees of the III. All said, you could turn a Racer into a Stornello pretty easily. Just takes $.

 

[usedtobefast]

Welcome to the GT fold.

Ride them both. Both are good. The III is noticably better in the motor dept, but much the same in all others, and I am not a huge fan of the slightly longer wheelbase/rake and bulkier triple trees of the III. All said, you could turn a Racer into a Stornello pretty easily. Just takes $.

If I get your Stornello mid pipe (no cat), cut out the Arrow DB killer, and get the tuning/mapping tool with correct map ... how much will that help the II? So comparing that modified Stornello to a stock V7 III Racer, would the Stornello be pretty close? (Power wise)

 

[Godfrey]

I flat out love the V7III Racer. This is my bike, my special-built from the ground up Sportified 850T, brought to life by Moto Guzzi.

I've never been comfortable on sit up bikes, and I love the way Racer's pipes sweep up from down low, riding position is ideal for me.. Everything about the bike suits me right on the money.

 

[Bill Hagan]

If "power" is your thing, I think -- code for WTF do I know what really makes you happy -- you will always be chasing it and never get there with a small block Guzzi.

I have had five new Guzzis since the millennium turned; my brother, six.

I own a Stornello, and I have put several hundred miles on my brother's V7 III Special. I have also ridden a Racer, albeit not in V7 III form.

Both are stupendous in their niches. But, none gets out its own way as my Griso does.

That said, I don't care. That isn't what calls me to small blocks. And, others here -- flame me, roadscum & vagrant -- think I am nuts. Lots of evidence for that, but I sure don't think that the power difference between the II & III series is a reason to choose one over the other. That doesn't mean that there are not significant improvements in the latter; see, e.g., Todd's above. And there are options for up-gunning performance.

But WRT power that you can feel in real world running on back roads -- where these things excel; IMO, small blocks are not ideal all-day slabbers -- the differences might be numbers on a dyno without noticeable butt punch.

Oh, for me, the Stornello is a sweet little beast, but it is not (again IMO) a serious off-road machine. Off-pavement, sure, but not Dakar-ready. As for buying for looks, lust is a great thing, but while one might date a girl for looks, marry for other qualities. [My Perfect Pillion, Kathi, never lurks here, but I'll say anyway that I got both with her! ]

I have, FWI, found the Stornello to be a just fine road bike, with those semi-knobbies surprisingly high-end on wet and dry pavement. My brother's Special is, however, an even better choice for longer road runs.

Ergos? What Godfrey said about what floats your boat. I don't like sit-up-&-beg seating, either, but find both Storny and Special more standard seating position than cruiser-like. Both, however, are more straight-up than either my Norge or Griso. Blondes, brunettes, redheads; so many choices. Have fun; let us know what you do.

Bill

P.S. Apropos my (stooopid) comment above that the Stornello isn't a serious backwoods machine, I just remembered that there is a southern California Guzzista riding a pretty stock Stornello to Tierra del Fuego. Will he make it? Doesn't matter really. He's pursuing his dream and having a great time. Mototrekkin; he's in Peru just now! See https://www.instagram.com/mototrekkin/ and https://www.facebook.com/johnston.julao.

 

[Vagrant]

Let's see, blonde or brunette? blonde or brunette? If you can't take them both home then flip a coin.
In this case you can't go wrong with either one. OABTW this is just a case of lust so forget common sense and reasoning!

 

[Bill Hagan]

^^^^^^

Yup, tho you left out my personal favorite, redhead.

BTW, I need to beat roadscum to the punch and post this: http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactu....com_weekly&utm_source=Motorcycle.com20170824

I hate data; much prefer BS. Oh, I forget; I'm a lawyer.

Bill

 

[Vagrant]

Bill, so so funny! we must be both drinking the same coffee this AM.
when I hit the send button on my response it came back with your new one. both mention women and lust. must be an old fart thing.
Can't flame you on the II. I need to ride one. the only thing wrong with the / my 2015 is the tune of the ECU and that's really only at startup. I'm sure Todds cure for it will make it as sweet as the III just a different power band and that's all right.

 

[V700Steve]

If I get your Stornello mid pipe (no cat), cut out the Arrow DB killer, and get the tuning/mapping tool with correct map ... how much will that help the II? So comparing that modified Stornello to a stock V7 III Racer, would the Stornello be pretty close? (Power wise)

One motor has hemi heads the other(Stornello) doesn't, bout 10hp difference.

 

[usedtobefast]

You talk about lust? Look at those Ohlins rear shocks on the V7 III Racer!

I've owned Ducati Monsters in the 1994-2004 era, and tweaks to those were more about having a "happy running engine" and sound!

From what I've read, a stock V7 II doesn't have a "happy running engine" due to fueling map. But no worries, I've had a KTM 990 and used TuneECU before, so used to loading maps. Just seems the II needs mapping and a III sounds ok (again, just from reading).

Hopefully I have a good test ride session at the dealer on Saturday. They were a bit odd ... talking about an appointment, and fitting me in, a bit snobbish really. BMW and Ducati dealers seem laid back and casual by comparison!

 

[usedtobefast]

As far as a Stornello and off road riding for me ... at first I thought of camping trips, riding dirt roads (at easy reasonable pace) ... exploring. But really, for the first year, I don't think I could do that to the bike! Would not want to get dirt on it. So it would be more about the looks/style, and a lot of our San Francisco area back roads are pretty beat up, broken up pavement ... so the tires & riding position would probably be helpful.

 

[GTM®]

Hopefully I have a good test ride session at the dealer on Saturday. They were a bit odd ... talking about an appointment, and fitting me in, a bit snobbish really.

Munroe Motors?

So it would be more about the looks/style, and a lot of our San Francisco area back roads are pretty beat up, broken up pavement ... so the tires & riding position would probably be helpful.

Plan on also upgrading the suspension. Stock is pretty bad especially for rough road riding.

 

[Godfrey]

Very amusing, Bill. There is space for all tastes.

I do give some exception to the notion that the V7III can't go long distances. Power and performance wise, the V7III Racer slots right exactly in between both my Sportified 850-T and my excruciatingly fussily tuned to the max LeMans V. The LMV was faster, both acceleration and top end (around 135 mph max, likely due to the fairing mostly), the 850T was softer and closer to a "100mph motorcycle". I've had Racer purring along smoothly at 105 already, and I haven't taken him too many places where that's viable for a long distance yet. Never mind that, I've owned and ridden bikes with less power than Racer on many-thousand-mile-long trips in the past, never once had a problem at it. A 750 with 50hp used to be considered a huge bike with vastly more power than needed... Yeah, I'm an Olde Fahrte.

David:
Right off the showroom floor, I felt so secure and so confident in Racer's abilities that I could have strapped my bag on the back of the seat and left for New York that afternoon. The V7III Racer was that good right out of the box. Yeah: it took a little time to warm up from a cold start. Yeah: there was a bit of mild surging now and then at 75-80 mph cruising speed. Nothing that would stop it from being a pleasure even on the open road.

But I knew there was just a little more to be had, both in responsiveness and in drivability. So I bought the GT-Rx tuning tool and installed a custom map on the OEM bike, also disabled the EVAP system when it screwed up (by 200 miles...!). The difference in responsiveness and ridability was amazing, I can't recommend at least that highly enough. Worth the $500 100%.

I'm a big guy so the first thing I had to do was adjust the rear suspension a bit. That's worked out well, but I think I'd be better off with the next higher spring rate because that will put correct adjustment closer to the center of the range for me with room to spare for carrying my travel gear. (Even at my intended best weight, coming up in another round of losses and exercise, I'll be 6 foot tall and around 215-220 lbs. The stock Racer springs are really designed for a max 210 lb solo rider and two up @ about 360 lb with a passenger.) This is normal stuff: I've done it on virtually every motorcycle I've ever owned.

I also knew that I wanted Racer to have a bit more of a voice than a stock Honda, and that the OEM exhaust pipes were quite heavy. On a light bike, all that weight hanging out in the tail is, to me, immediately noticeable in how the bike handles. I like how the stock bike looks and bought the Agostini classic long mufflers for it. I worked with GT to build a customized map for it. Now, db-killers in, Racer sounds and performs exactly the way I imagined I wanted. Unless you're an acceleration junkie (I'm not, I'm a cornering junkie ... ), you really don't need any more.

The one thing left to do for drivability, since I no longer have the OEM catcons installed, is to block the secondary air system. It doesn't really hurt much, but it makes the bike a snarfing, barking bit of a PITA when riding in traffic. I've got GT's kit for that here now. As soon as I can dismiss this lingering bit of pneumonia I've been suffering through since the 5th, Racer will have an SAS-ectomy and will run absolutely perfectly.

I would choose a V7III over a V7II every time if buying new, now that the IIIs are easily available. The engine overhaul is a much bigger deal than it reads on paper: the III engine is essentially the stronger V9 engine fitted with smaller displacement cylinders. The hemiheads are much much more conducive to further tuning, if you're into that, and the whole frame has been subtly beefed up in all particulars. Yeah, it's a little heavier and the steering is slightly slower ... this suits me fine because it makes it more similar in feel to my old 850T and LMV, while still being more nimble than either.

There are many trade-offs to this stuff. I've been riding for nearly forty years, obsessively for various periods of that time, and have a gross estimate of about 1.2 Million miles on bikes (mostly Ducati and Moto Guzzi, with some Honda, BMW, Norton, Kawasaki, and Triumph tossed in on the side). I know what I like all too well, and what trade-offs suit me. A good motorcycle is not a commodity, to me, that I'm always trying to figure out the next best one. It's more a machine that I will buy, and fettle 'til it works the way I want, and then ride until I wear it out. And then rebuild it and ride it some more.

Good luck with your search and your decision. There are no "bad" Moto Guzzis from what I've seen, only those that haven't been fully set up properly. Buy, fettle, ride for all they're worth. They keep on going...

G
—
No matter where you go, go there on a Guzzi!

 

[Godfrey]

Munroe Motors? ...

All the dealers I've worked with over the past few decades have required an appointment for a test ride. Many times they will only provide test rides on whatever bike of similar type they've got in their test bike fleet, for insurance and cost reasons. Munroe Motors operates that way, as does every other dealer i know of in this area as well ...

Except for where I bought my Racer, California Speed-Sports. I called for a test ride appointment at 9:00am and asked when they could accommodate me. My test bike was pulled into the shop immediately and given the full pre-delivery setup and prep. I arrived there at 10:45 and it was ready for a test ride ... and they didn't send someone out with me, they didn't give me any mileage or time limits, they just said, "Have a good time, remember it's on break-in, and we close at 5pm." "Really?" I said. LOL! "Be reasonable, that's all. Bye." and the salesman went back into the showroom.

I knew Racer was my bike within 500 yards. I put 6 more miles on it, just digging it so much. Returned to the dealership, worked the money, and wrote a check for THAT BIKE on the spot. I took Racer home the next morning after I drove back home and got the Ducati ready to trade in for it. Best new bike purchase experience I've ever had the pleasure of, and I've bought at least 25 new motorcycles (and 40-some odd others) since 1974.

I don't see anything I can complain about in that.

 

[Vagrant]

back in the 70's - 90's I used to tell new to Guzzi people they needed to do at least 100 miles on a test ride to know for sure if it was for them. mostly because they were so different from a Triumph, Harley or Honda. Now I suspect 100 yards to 20 miles might do it. again because they are so different. Pleasing to the soul if you will!
Godrrey is right on everything.

 

[usedtobefast]

Well, 9am appointment set for Sat, looks like I'm riding a Stornello and Racer (sounds like they are prepping the Racer for service). I told them I was cool with just riding the Stone that they already have setup for demo rides ... but the Sales guy said there is a big enough difference between the Stone and the Racer that I need to actually ride the Racer.

It is still a bit odd. Had like 4 phone calls with the Sales guy so far. Lot of work for them to sell a ~$9K bike. At the BMW dealer I just stroll in off the street, they copy my license, and they give me the keys to a $24K bike and say try to be back in ~45 minutes. But I guess BMW has a very official demo program.

Anyway, be interesting to see what happens! I'm taking my trailer, tie down straps, and checkbook ... all just in case.

I figure if I LOVE one of the bikes and the price isn't ridiculous I could be a Moto Guzzi owner tomorrow! [insert emoticon of hipster drinking a latte]

(ok ok, I guess all the hipsters are buying the Ducati Scramblers)

 

[Godfrey]

Good Luck!

Fall in love with one or the other, doesn't matter which, and you have a bike to ride forever if you want. Guzzis are like that.

Regards the sales practices .. one factor is that it's winter and sales are often very slow right now. These guys can be pretty hungry.
And I agree with them: between the V7III Racer and other models, the ergonomics are so different that you really do have to ride the Racer. Any of the other models are much more of a sameness.

Of course, BMW dealers have a VAST dealer network behind them. Guzzi's total output of motorcycles is probably 2% of BMW world production. It's changed a little since Piaggio took MG over, but prior to that any and every Guzzi was essentially a hand built motorcycle.

Buy a Guzzi and you're still buying something a little bit special, with all the pluses and minuses that come along with that.

 

[Bill Hagan]

@ u2bf - Good luck on your choice; will your trailer hold two?

@ Godfrey -

Re V7 Gambelunghe - Haven't gone back to see exactly what I said -- that might mean I was wrong; can't have that -- but I did NOT mean to suggest that "the V7III can't go long distances."

On the contrary, I think that any modern V7 can. I just have no interest in that. I loathe riding long straights anywhere and the slab at any time. I take (mostly curvy) back roads almost exclusively. Easy for me to talk, as I don't live on the tundra. Stupendous roads out of my driveway; see, e.g., this, which begins 1/4 mile from here: http://tinyurl.com/DMVRR-Silerwinder

I have done multi-day rides on all my Guzzis, with the Norge and Griso being preferred mounts for such, but (now that I've found some luggage solutions) I wouldn't hesitate a second to take the Stornello way down-range. But droning on for hundreds of miles on four-laners? Nah. I'll take a cage. But that's my personal choice. V7's can do it. No matter what their theoretical capability or the "I swear" stories from owners, I do not think one does oneself (or any V7) any favors by riding hundreds of miles at "Damn the Torpedoes!" speeds.

Re Moto Guzzis over the years -

My first motorcycles were in the mid-60's: one step-thru Honda 90 I won at a raffle, but traded instantly for a Yamaha; had three of those smoky sweeties over a few years before real life of the Army, wife, and kids ended those adventures.

I first rode Moto Guzzis in the late '70's but only in brief "courtesy demo rides." Not from dealers, but from some Carabinieri I worked with and a civvie friend who had a new something (shame on me for not remembering ). The Carabinieri were great bubbas and rode, I think, mil-spec versions of 750's. Docile beasts, those. Uhm, the Guzzis, not the Carbs!

Anyway, based on my observations, Guzzis are better now than back in the day. Never completely sure about that hand-made piece. And, the fit and finish of my Griso and Stornello are near flawless. That's more that I can say about the Norge. My EV is a bit of a brown (and yellow!) egg in many way. I think that Guzzi was trying to re-enter the mass market as a serious competitor and put lots of effort into it. 102K miles later, I love it like an old pair of penny loafers. And -- thanks to Wayne Orwig going over it recently -- it runs great, uses little oil, and leaks not a weep.

Anyway, despite all the tales of how "bulletproof "Guzzis were -- yeah, I suppose, if one is using .22's -- I think the new ones are better in near every way. May be my possibly unique experiences with a blown engine, trashed CARC, broken shifter pawl springs, etc., but I gauge my own confidence in my moto-harem by the number of tools I take with me.

The EV gets the left hard-case H-B with enough tools to do major maintenance at roadside. The Norge gets 1/2 of that left pannier ... well, unless Kathi comes along, in which case I just give her both panniers and the top case, and I get the tank bag! ... The Griso gets the OEM tool kit and some cable ties just 'cuz; the Stornello gets the (pathetic) OEM kit and nada else.

Enough blathering. The only thing I am absolutely certain about that Guzzis charm me as nothing else has on two wheels.

Life is good.

Bill

 

[usedtobefast]

Ut oh. I'm used to taking a flat tire kit (plugs/CO2/etc), a cell phone, and a credit card.

Oh darn, both the Racer and Stornello have tubes! Do you guys carry spare tubes, tire irons, CO2 or pump ... wait, no center stand. Oh well, just pray not to get a flat? Actually, I guess I've plugged one tire in 45 years of street riding, so I guess no worries, now I'll just carry the cell phone and credit card.

 

[Godfrey]

Re V7 Gambelunghe - Haven't gone back to see exactly what I said -- that might mean I was wrong; can't have that -- but I did NOT mean to suggest that "the V7III can't go long distances."

On the contrary, I think that any modern V7 can. I just have no interest in that. I loathe riding long straights anywhere and the slab at any time. I take (mostly curvy) back roads almost exclusively. ... [snip]

Enough blathering. The only thing I am absolutely certain about that Guzzis charm me as nothing else has on two wheels.

Bill, when I said "long distance", I didn't mean "long, straight roads" (the interstate slab, in my parlance). I've ridden coast to coast through the USA several dozen times and only rarely would I tolerate more than an hour or so at a time on the slab, and usually only because I was in a hurry and trying to meet a schedule. Most of my rides have been state and county two lane, where in my youth a 500 mile day was a 20 hour workout with thousands of turns at all kinds of speed. You shouldn't presume "slab" is what someone means when they say "long distance".

My first Moto Guzzi was a 1976 850-T3 that I bought way before I was mature about bikes enough to even realize what I had. She was a proud thing, and though my sporty brit and jap bikes laughed at her all the time, I rode that bike to work and back, on holiday trips, and through New York winters for a year and a half. My only regret about it was that I sold it long before I'd put enough mileage to be worth it on the odometer ... I bought it used, a year and a half old, and only put another 25000 miles on it before I sold it and bought my next bike.

Next started a many year run of Ducati 750GT and Honda VFR motorcycles. I always loved the Ducatis and rode them everywhere in North America, for years at a time. The Honda VFRs were fun, fast, but pretty soulless. Never kept one longer than a year.

My next Moto Guzzi was the '89 LeMans V. The story goes: on a dare in 1993, I flew to England to test ride the new Triumph 900 triple and 1000 four before they were available in the USA. A buddy over there on my motorcycle mailing list* offered to put me up and set up the test ride. I came back from that trip having enjoyed the Triumphs, but absolutely agog over my friend's LeMans V. There were very few to be found in the USA, but I managed to find one at Harpers in Kansas and had it shipped out to me in late '94 or early '95. I loved that bike.

A few months later, a friend told me that one of his neighbors had a '75 850T that he wanted to get rid of. It hadn't been ridden in at least 5 years, so I went over there with the battery out of the LeMans, fitted it, and fired it up. First stop was at the gas station to bring the old tires up from 5psi to 35... after that, it was clunky and funky but ran great. I made that my Sportify project and tore it to the ground, built it up especially and specifically for me.

Between that LeMans and the Sportified T, I rode vast distances and loved every minute. I sold them both in 2004-2005 when my hip disintegrated far enough that I felt I'd never be able to sit on a bike without pain again, and the pain of seeing them sitting in the garage was just too much for me.

The V7III Racer is as close to that lovely old T with twinges of the LeMansV put in that it's hard to describe. In some ways, it's a better bike than either; in others, well, I still miss my T and LMV more than I can ever explain. I'd buy either of them back in an instant, given the opportunity. Sigh.

Guzzis have always done it for me, in other words. I'm in complete, total agreement with your last sentence. Racer will be sold when I can no longer, finally, ever, get my butt onto the saddle. Period.

G

(* The euro-moto mailing list is still running strong, I'm admin and grand poobah for the past 20-some years; http://lists.micapeak.com/mailman/listinfo/euro-moto is where to find it ... and yes, Todd, many people on euro-moto are also subscribers to the GuzziTech.com forums and know all about this place, including some of the euro-moto folks from the UK and Italy... some might even have be customers from time to time. euro-moto is an old school, text only, email list ... no pictures, no posts longer than a constrained limit, etc etc, and more than 90 percent of the folks on it have been there for at least 20 years. It costs nothing but an annual donation if you care to. )