Stornello or V7 Racer?

[Godfrey]

Ut oh. I'm used to taking a flat tire kit (plugs/CO2/etc), a cell phone, and a credit card.

Oh darn, both the Racer and Stornello have tubes! Do you guys carry spare tubes, tire irons, CO2 or pump ... wait, no center stand. Oh well, just pray not to get a flat? Actually, I guess I've plugged one tire in 45 years of street riding, so I guess no worries, now I'll just carry the cell phone and credit card.

LOL! People have ridden literally HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of miles on tube-tired bikes. Fitted correctly and kept inflated correctly, they work just as well as tubeless tires and are far easier to fix by the side of the road aside from having a simple, direct puncture.

I've had far more flats on the road with the tubeless tires on my Ducati 907IE and 900SS than I ever had with any of my tube-tired bikes. And the Ducatis were far more expensive and difficult to fix a flat on if I had to break the bead and get inside.

So ... yeah, just carry the cell phone and your credit card. That's all you'll need most anywhere you ride in the 'semi-civilized' world of the USA, Canada, or even Mexico. I've not worried about carrying a tire patch kit at all since about 1984, because it never did me any good even when I had it. In virtually all cases, I had to call a truck to pick me up and head over to some bike shop where there were tools to fix the flat properly, without screaming...

G

 

[Bill Hagan]

Praise Carlo, Giovanni, and Giorgio!

As a retired paid-by-the-word guy, I confess that pithy prose was never my strength.

But I see from yours that I am an amateur in prolixity. I bask in your radiance.

Will say that I agree with most of yours, above, but will quibble -- assuming, of course, that I do not infer too much from your post -- about your counsel to used2besomething that a CC and phone are enough for a road trip, at least WRT to tire kits.

Granted, I have not used all of the tools of the many that I bring along, but I've used a bunch. Again, almost zilch on Griso (knock on plastic) and zero on Stornello (knock on metal), but lots of miles ahead and I find most tows -- no matter how "free" -- co$t lot$. And, so far, I've been able to fix a number of call-for-tow maladies on the the side of the road, especially the several involving tubeless flats.

Jury's out on the Stornello's tubed tires. I do carry AMA card and phone to call for towing. Hope only need the phone to call Kathi to come get me with the trailer. "Yes, dear; I know, but it's only 316 miles."

No time to respond more. The P2 and I are off to Carlisle Barracks in a few for a birthday party for twin preteen granddaughters; pray for me.

Bill

 

[Godfrey]

Molti ringraziamenti, signore!

It was not my intention to say, "Carry No Tools!" It's just been my experience that tire repair by the side of the road just isn't a big enough deal to waste energy on, tubeless or not ... a credit card and a cell phone are sufficient for that.

I'm still working on the right kit for Racer, but my usual kit in every vehicle (including my bicycle) is a minimal collection of just the right allen keys, combination spanners, pliers, feeler gauges, pocket knife, flashlight, self-made 'special tools', and whatever spares, that let me cope with the usual foibles of a machine when some trivial thing needs immediate attention or I'm stuck. I suggest EVERYONE carry that, all the time, and know how to use it... it's rarely a pouch with more than ten or twelve small, light bits in it. I built the kit for my car and my bicycle over the first six months of owning them, and I'm doing the same for Racer now. It's amazing to me how many people get stuck because a screw came loose, fell out, and they don't even have a screwdriver handy to tighten it back to where it should be. That's just silly.

G

(BTW: I am a retired writer, most of my writing was technical stuff for the software development world. However, in the mists of antiquity, I was Poet Laureat at my high school at my graduation, and had started submitting and publishing stories to the automotive, motorcycle, and fiction presses when I was fourteen. It wasn't where I ended up, but it's a place I'm looking to visiting again. Soon! )

 

[usedtobefast]

Ok, what a day of Moto Guzzi shopping!

First the dealer. Turns out they were just trying to be super customer friendly. Setting up a specific time to ensure both bikes were ready to ride and the Sales guy available to lead the ride. Calling to make sure they had everything right etc. Great group of guys.

On to the bikes ...

 

[usedtobefast]

First bike I tried was a Stornello. These are 2016 models with the V7 II engine.

Bike looked really nice. Maybe not as exciting as I was thinking it would be, but very nice.
Clutch pull is fine, seemed light actually (heard some guys talking about stiff clutch pull?).
Shifting is great.

But, wow, this is a very mellow bike. That thought is stuck in my head each time I twist the throttle. Then I think about it, I have a number of very fast bikes (KTM 990 SMT, KTM 300 XC race bike) and I'm used to carefully rolling on the throttle, maybe the Stornello needs more of a "twist it harder" kind of throttle hand. Yes! That worked lots better. So I was gently rolling on throttle on a fairly mellow bike, so was double mellow.

Ok, getting a bit more used to it ... but really, it is still a very tame mellow bike. Handling feels light and zippy, front brake feels strong and good. Shifting is really nice.

Rear suspension doesn't seem bad. Read several reviews talking about how horrible it was. Seemed fine on my test ride.

But I keep noticing my right boot and the pipe guard. The Sale/Lead guy stopped several times and one time I pulled my glove off and put my hand on the pipe heat shield where it was touching my pants/boot. It was pretty darn warm ... and it was a bit over 40 degrees out. I tried riding with my foot a bit more to the right of the foot peg, leaving a gap between pants/boot and pipe shield, but that felt awkward. I kept naturally moving my foot/leg back closer and touching the pipe shield. Hummm, not liking this.

For the mellow power, I'm thinking "cut out the DB killer, get Todd's mid pipe (no cat), and remap tool ... wonder how much that'd help".

So me and the Stornello not clicking so well.

On to the next bike ...

 

[usedtobefast]

For the second bike, I am interested in the 2017 V7 III Racer, but understood they didn't have that as a demo bike. They did have a Stone demo bike, and since that has the engine/clutch/transmission in common (maybe also brakes) I could get a feel for a III bike vs. a II bike.

So onto the Stone demo bike.

Wow what a difference. Major fun motor. Felt much stronger, much more refined/modern, reved quicker with more power but still plenty of chugging Guzzi character.

Also noticed how much more natural my right foot/boot felt without the pipe in the way (on the Stornello).

Also still feels very light and zippy. Clutch and shifting great.

Oh, on both bikes, I had no issue with clicking into neutral at a stop. Very easy. Not sure why I see that brought up as an issue many times in reviews.

So it was a bit sad. I wanted to love and buy the Stornello, but it was obvious to me that wasn't the bike for me.

I would need/want to go with a V7 III .

Time to look at the Racer ...

 

[usedtobefast]

Ok, this is where things take an odd turn.

So their V7 III Racer is in a crate. On the floor they have a V7 II Racer. The Sales guy says the bars, pegs, ergonomics of the II (2016) and III (2017) Racers are the same.

So I sit on the II Racer. Hum. Bars are pretty low, and I don't like the angle/bend. Pegs are pretty high. I keep sitting on it a while. Started thinking, wow, I don't like this. I want my fun zippy Moto Guzzi to be an easy to ride, comfortable bike. Not something emulating a sport bike.

Wow. I don't like the Racer either.

Hummmm. Look around. Don't like the Stones with their matte tanks and those black wheels. Really wanted a red frame, oh well. So only bike that looks good to me is the Anniversario. But wow, that's A LOT of chrome! Look it over a bit. Talk to Sales guy, might as well work up a price. They have it slightly discounted. They knock off a bit more. Still a lot of money when I'm not into that much chrome.

Very pretty bike, but not for me.

So off I go with no Moto Guzzi. So sad.

I'm thinking maybe find that pretty blue tank special somewhere (this shop did not have one).

Thought briefly that I could still get the Racer and change the clip ons to higher ones. Oh, then change the pegs. Hum, sounds like a dumb idea. Oh well ...

 

[usedtobefast]

So as I'm driving home it dawns on me that I'll be driving right by another Moto Guzzi shop. I remember they didn't have a Stornello, and didn't have a lot of bikes, but couldn't remember exactly what they did have.

So I stop in at dealer #2.

And guess what ... they have a 2017 V7 III Racer in the showroom! Wow, looks really nice. Sales guys rolls it out a bit, I sit on it, wait a minute ... this feels great! Bars aren't that low. Pegs aren't that high. Sure lower bars than the standard handle bar, but this feels pretty comfortable.

Darn Sales guy #1 that said the II Racer and III Racer ergos are the same!!

I sit some more. It feels great!

So, here's the next odd twist to this day and tale ... Dealer #1 had a great discount on the III Racer, Dealer #2, not so much. So Dealer #2 works up a price, so I tell him about the great discount at Dealer #1. Dealer #2 can't come anywhere near that price.

Dealer #2's price is just too much for me to spend on one of these. So I thank them and leave.

 

[usedtobefast]

Ok ... I get in my car and call up Dealer #1 ... tell them I just sat on a III Racer and it felt great ... what's the OTD price on their III Racer.

Dealer #1 comes back with a fantastic deal, reflecting the great discount, and I say I'll take it!

So now it is late in the day, Dealer #1 is talking about uncrating and prepping the bike, and I say why don't I do a deposit, and come pick it up mid week next week. Service guys can take their time, no need to rush.

So I bought a III Racer. Well a deposit, and picking it up next week.

Whew what a day. I get my red frame after all!!

 

[usedtobefast]

Executive Summary:

(All Usedtobefast's thoughts/opinions ...)

Stornello too mellow, pipe in the way
V7 III way better than a V7 II
Racer II ergos not good
Racer III ergos just fine

 

[Godfrey]

Welcome to the V7III Racer club, Dave!!
And thanks for the ride reports.

For me, the V7III Racer is the most comfortable bike I've owned in all the years I've been riding, excepting perhaps only my 850T which was basically identical. Example: It's about 50 miles from me to CSS. When I rode the Ducati Scrambler there to trade it in and ride Racer home, the Duc (even after three months of mucking and fettling with better seat, suspension adjustments, replacement bars with a better bend, better grips, etc etc) nearly made me scream with pain in my lower back from the pounding I took riding up 880->Mission->580. It hurt so bad when I got there that I could barely turn the throttle any more and it took laying down on the grass for 20 minutes to be able to bend again. I hurt so badly it crossed my mind to tell the salesman that if he didn't want to take the Duc in trade, please help me hoist it into the dumpster and I'll pay the full price on Racer.

An hour later, after all the paperwork and such was done, I went out and dreaded the thought that the Racer seating position over a 50 mile run might not work. I rode home down the same route, through the same crappy pavement and traffic, and as I neared home, I was having so much fun that I rode to my friend's shop in San Jose, then around and up to Cupertino to show the bike to a couple of the moto guys, then to Sunnyvale to show it to my best moto buddy, and then home ... and the only reason I stopped was that I had to meet someone for dinner who was picking me up at home. Nothing hurt, not even a whimper. Riding Racer up to a 200+ mile session in one go doesn't hurt. At all. Have I said how much I love this bike?

Just wait until you have it home and do the small mods I suggested (EVAP disable, some lighter, freer flowing mufflers, GT-Rx ECU remap with the right map for your pipes, and then the SAS block off). And get through break-in (about 900 miles on mine and the engine announced it was ready to rev by all of a sudden SLAMMING into the rev limiter twice where before it would rev out quickly but I could upshift before it went to the limiter with it overrunning...!). The difference in response and performance happened over about a 20 mile point where the engine suddenly said, "I'm done, I'm ready! Rev me! Rev ME NOW!" And I complied, tossing it through the next set of ess-bends off 85 onto 237, sliding both ends with absolute confidence and security, then giving it the juice up to 90 mph before flying down my exit onto Central Expressway. I knew at that moment that I was ready for it too: my re-break-in was completed.

I also took the stock bar-end weights and stock mirrors off and replaced them with a pair of bar-end weights with cutouts for CRG bar-end mirrors (GT has them in the store). And fitted a high-output H4 headlamp bulb.

Again, have I said how much I love riding this Racer?

Pardon my rattling on. I'm excited for you. AND the pneumonia I've been fighting for two weeks has finally broken: I should be fit to ride again by Tuesday. I am itching to get on both my bicycle and Racer so badly ... It's been a month!

 

[usedtobefast]

I'll probably keep it stock for a while (I say as I just finished looking at Mistral vs. Agostini slip ons!). So the stock slip ons are heavy? I actually like the way the stock ones look.

I'm getting pretty excited ... got my red frame and Ohlins shocks!

Only bad thing now, with upcoming rain & work schedule, I probably can't pick it up until Sat 1/27.

 

[Godfrey]

The Agostini traditional "long" mufflers, packed for shipment, weigh about 25-27 lbs. complete for both. The stock mufflers weigh about 30 lbs each.

The Agostinis look much like the OEM stock mufflers, only a mite thinner. That's why I liked them, as well as their sound.

 

[Vagrant]

Glad you found what fits you.
Two as in 2 Guzzi dealers within a short drive???
Also glad to see you noticed as big a difference in the 16 Vs 17 engine as I.
Jealous of your red frame!

 

[GTM®]

So I bought a III Racer. Well a deposit, and picking it up next week. Whew what a day. I get my red frame after all!!

Congrats! When you pick it up, be sure to add your info to the Registry here; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/v7-registry-picture-thread-add-your-bike.9108/
Before you spend your money on the exhaust, hope you'll have a look at my offerings here; https://www.guzzitech.com/store/category/exhaust/?filter_model=v7-iii - from those who have seen and heard them, state they are the best sounding V7 versions ever. I completely agree (even though I do make them in house). And be sure to correct the fueling; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/v7-v9-ecu-programmer-box.15762/

 

[usedtobefast]

Glad you found what fits you.
Two as in 2 Guzzi dealers within a short drive???
Also glad to see you noticed as big a difference in the 16 Vs 17 engine as I.
Jealous of your red frame!

I have 1 dealer ~ 45 min away. Another ~1 hr away. and 2 more ~2 hrs away. But these are like Ducati/Triump/Aprilia/Guzzi etc. So some have like 4 Moto Guzzi's on the floor, others might have like 20.

Oh, and MV Agusta! One shop had a MV Agusta Brutale America ... wow ... looks like a show bike. It also has a red frame! And red seat.
When I was at my saddest state, thinking "No Moto Guzzi for me ", I did have a 2 minute thought of buying that Brutale! But for me, I think it would be better in the living room looking at it! Absolutely stunning bike.

I'm getting very excited about my new Racer! Best case I pick it up Tuesday, worse case Saturday.

 

[usedtobefast]

Congrats! When you pick it up, be sure to add your info to the Registry here; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/v7-registry-picture-thread-add-your-bike.9108/
Before you spend your money on the exhaust, hope you'll have a look at my offerings here; https://www.guzzitech.com/store/category/exhaust/?filter_model=v7-iii - from those who have seen and heard them, state they are the best sounding V7 versions ever. I completely agree (even though I do make them in house). And be sure to correct the fueling; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/v7-v9-ecu-programmer-box.15762/

Todd - I'll probably check in with you in ~ a month or two. Might want to go to the 600 service with it stock. The stock mapping felt pretty good from the butt dyno. But If I went with a slip on I would certainly get your mapping tool/maps then. (Been thru this with my KTM 990 SMT, make a mod, update the map, repeat until too much money has been spent)

Also, I might just have to force myself to ride down the Pacific Coast Hwy (in warmer months) and come by your shop! I actually like the look of the stock exhaust. But if Godfrey's weight estimates are anywhere near accurate, that is a HUGE weight savings. Plus nice booming sound, and better performance. win win win

Also, I see a lot of info about exhaust and mapping, but what are guys doing about the intake? (I will be searching & reading more on this) (With my KTM 990, it seems like this was flipped around ... exhaust? Put on Akrapovic. Intake? Well, there are 6 different options ... Rottweiler kits seeming the best)

 

[Godfrey]

...
Two as in 2 Guzzi dealers within a short drive??? ...

We're lucky here in the SF Bay Area with respect to Moto Guzzi dealers. I live near San Jose airport, at the edge of Santa Clara. There is Munroe Motors in SF (50 minutes away), California Speed-Sports in Livermore (40 minutes away), a dealer in Elk Grove just south of Sacramento (119 miles away, about two hours), and another in Sonoma county (about 100 miles or two hours again).

Then again, this is probably one of the only places in the USA where there are three Ferrari, two Lamborghini, three Maserati, one McLaren, and eight Porsche dealers all within a sixty mile radius. it has to do with average incomes in the technology industry, I imagine.

It's also one of those select places in the world where a crappy little 1300 square foot home on a 1.8 acre piece of land can sell easily for $1.5M and rent for a 600 square foot apartment can exceed $4000/month ... so it's not all upside.

 

[Godfrey]

...
Also, I might just have to force myself to ride down the Pacific Coast Hwy (in warmer months) and come by your shop! I actually like the look of the stock exhaust. But if Godfrey's weight estimates are anywhere near accurate, that is a HUGE weight savings. Plus nice booming sound, and better performance. win win win ...

You got me curious because I remembered the 2x weight factor between stock and Agostinis well, but not the precise weights. When I took the OEM mufflers and their brackets off the bike, I wrapped them up for storage in the same packaging that the Agostinis came in (with a little bit of tape at one end to hold them in, they're about 4" longer than the Agos). The UPS shipping label on the box from Guzzitech to me says 14 lbs for the Agos, and I'm sure that's accurate. So I pulled the package out of its resting place in my closet and put it on the bathroom scale: 29.5 lbs. They feel MUCH heavier than that, I can attest, from having to get on the step stool and heave them down and back up again ... ! So there's precise data for you.

I can tell you that even in my doddering old age, the difference in handling feel was INSTANTLY noticeable. Racer is much more flickable and the suspension tracks much more accurately than it did with the stock mufflers, with no other changes. It's losing that extra 15-18 lbs hanging way out at the tail of the bike that turns the trick.

BTW, I'm absolutely sure that Todd's mufflers produced in shop are excellent given all the care he takes in producing engine maps that work CORRECTLY and his experience in doing so, and all the other stuff. But I just love the look and sound of the Agostini classic long mufflers. I ordered them from GT since Todd is also an Agostini dealer, and he did a wonderful job of getting them in and to me from Italy in a shockingly short period of time. Getting the fueling/ignition map just right (even with the OEM mufflers using his map), perfect as a matter of fact, took just one round of modification from the original custom map for the Agos he sent me; and he supplied it free of charge as part of the normal deal included with the GT-Rx ECU Flash Tool. Thanks again, Todd! GT has been OUTSTANDING with support and service, and your stuff has all been top flight.

Intake: The lovely little pushrod, hemi-head V7III motor is a design formula of an engine from the 1960s/early 1970s, designed by Carcano's genius, and modernized with 21st Century EFI and ignition. (Just like the frame is the work of their frame genius, Lino Tonti, in that same era and subsequently fettled over the years for the small block Guzzis to its current state...) It's not a 12,000 RPM state of the art motor design; it's basically a very classic, simple pushrod engine with limitations on ultimate power exchanged for ease of service, durability, and rideability. Unless you're looking for much deeper modifications to improve engine breathing to their absolute limits, and cam/rods/crank/etc to allow it to spin reliably to where that's useful (mostly for racing!), the stock single-throttle-body intake manifold and airbox flows as much air as the engine can pull in. A possible improvement, mostly on maintenance, would be to replace the paper filter for a K&N filter ... clean and use (nearly) forever vs replacing every couple of years. But, as good as the K&Ns are, a paper filter element will always actually do a better job of filtering albeit for a shorter period of time. K&Ns work best when they're actually a bit crusty with dirt and mud from motocross and Grand National dirt track racing: the fine dirt crusted on the outside of the oil-soaked cheese cloth acts as a filtering component without the filter losing flow until it's really REALLY dirty.

(A friend of mine's brother was one of the people who did the V7III OEM engine map at Piaggio/Moto Guzzi. After Todd gave me the map that sorted everything perfectly, I asked him about the cold start and minor surging issues I'd seen with the stock bike. He gave me 'that look' and shrugged, "You know the situation. We have to design and build for all-world regulatory requirements which are an overlapping chaos of craziness coupled with the usual budgetary and deadline constraints. I know I could do a better job if I was writing the code for YOUR personal bike. ... But it sounds like you have someone there who knows what they're doing already.")

 

[Bill Hagan]

As far as a Stornello and off road riding for me ... at first I thought of camping trips, riding dirt roads (at easy reasonable pace) ... exploring. But really, for the first year, I don't think I could do that to the bike! Would not want to get dirt on it. So it would be more about the looks/style, and a lot of our San Francisco area back roads are pretty beat up, broken up pavement ... so the tires & riding position would probably be helpful.

Thought of you and that comment when I looked at my Stornello in the Moto Grappa a few days ago after a short ride in a one-day "warm spell" ..., by Virginia-January-standards, anyway!



I posted a few more pix in a related thread if you have the stomach for more.

https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/th...ii-racer-and-2015-v7-racer.18110/#post-139217

Best,

Bill